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Here's what's missing from that argument. The state's oppressive taxes have forced lower property values on it's citizens. Just another way that NYS screws it's people. It's like Vegas. They grab their share first. How would the government be worse off if the property tax rate was cut in half, but the property values were double? Exactly the same. As I said, just another example of the government largess and gimme attitude.
I don't know about you, but I would choose the higher property value and lower tax rate. Why? Because with a lower rate, at least we would have economic activity, leading to appreciation in the real estate market. At least people would be growing the equity in their homes.
Actually, the second source includes real property taxes. So, that may be the source to view, as it also uses median family income. What does get left out are other forms of property tax and perhaps prevalence of HOA's.
On the flip side, some may say that they can actually stay in their homes, as that was the case during the past recession. With that said, there is no argument and I've actually tried to offer a solution in terms of how taxes could be lowered. If anything, the tax situation is a bigger issue in relation to business development.
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Instead of blaming this on lower labor costs in other locations, NY City income tax, depressed housing values, HOA costs how about just admit that the state and local government's are overtaxing every aspect of living. From $15 a pack cigarettes in NYC, excessive property/school taxes, sales taxes up to and over %8, gas prices jumping $.35-.40 per gallon just by entering the state and still paying tolls on a roadway that has been paid off for 20+ years this all contributes to the number one status....
It's cheap up front. Over 20 years of owning that house, you could conceivably pay its value in taxes.
If you lose a job, that $3000-$5000 tax liability will destroy you. If I'm only paying $500 or $1000 a year in tax on a property, I will not get it taken from me by the government in that scenario.
They're dirt cheap because there is no demand.
They're also dirt cheap because the housing stock is often 100+ years old, clapboard, and junk.
I am sure I would have no problem getting a better shake in nearly every part of the US - according to statistics.
Where are these $500-1000 taxes, outside of the parts of these states that aren't in high demand? Just asking.....
What about Right To Work?
Median home build age for homes in NYS is 1956(1976 for the US). So, half of the homes in the state were built before that year and half were built after that year.
To be clear, I think people should just live where ever they want to, in spite of all of the stats/info.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 05-03-2017 at 12:10 PM..
It's cheap up front. Over 20 years of owning that house, you could conceivably pay its value in taxes.
If you lose a job, that $3000-$5000 tax liability will destroy you. If I'm only paying $500 or $1000 a year in tax on a property, I will not get it taken from me by the government in that scenario.
.
Texas also has a high property tax liability, in addition to very high assessments in the cities, HOAs, and high insurance rates. In NY, if you lose your job, at least your income tax drops also. In Texas, your entire tax liability would remain.
Houston: 3br 2ba, 1700sf, 4600sf lot, built 1935 - taxes $10,200, insurance $2400, HOA $400 - and that's with a homestead exemption of about $4000.
Last edited by RocketSci; 05-03-2017 at 02:56 PM..
Land value has doubled in the last 6 years. Older homeowners on fixed income basically must sell, and older homes are torn down and replaced with McMansions.
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Originally Posted by RocketSci
Home value 77,000. Land value 465,000.
HOA is neighborhood patrol.
Land value has doubled in the last 6 years. Older homeowners on fixed income basically must sell, and older homes are torn down and replaced with McMansions.
Thank you based on these figures this home has an assessed value of $542,000, my guess is this is in the historic core of the city. That said the tax rate is $18.82 per $1000 of assessed value that same tax burden in:
Syracuse (city of): $39.06 per $1k= $39.06 x 542 = 21,170.32
Rochester (City of): $37.76 per $1k= $37.76 x 542 = 20, 465.92
Buffalo (city of): $33.45 per $1k= $33.45 x 542 = 18,129.90
* All tax rates at from the city/counties web site (2017 figures)
* All communities have additional charges for everything from sewer pipes, to sidewalks and libraries. Too much to calculate.
So based on this comparison I would find the Houston home to be a much better value for the money, the taxes are lower and even with the HOA cost which wasn't identified as per year/month you have an investment of significant value that will yield a nice profit when sold. How much is the 50's era ranch/split going to yield when sold?
Your example seems to be extreme where you've chosen a vintage neighborhood of modest homes that are close to the city center so their land value far exceeds the homes value. You could find the same thing in NY such as Brooklyn which has become a hot housing market forcing prices through the roof but again at least when they sell there is a hefty profit unlike upstate.
Thank you based on these figures this home has an assessed value of $542,000, my guess is this is in the historic core of the city. That said the tax rate is $18.82 per $1000 of assessed value that same tax burden in:
Syracuse (city of): $39.06 per $1k= $39.06 x 542 = 21,170.32
Rochester (City of): $37.76 per $1k= $37.76 x 542 = 20, 465.92
Buffalo (city of): $33.45 per $1k= $33.45 x 542 = 18,129.90
* All tax rates at from the city/counties web site (2017 figures)
* All communities have additional charges for everything from sewer pipes, to sidewalks and libraries. Too much to calculate.
So based on this comparison I would find the Houston home to be a much better value for the money, the taxes are lower and even with the HOA cost which wasn't identified as per year/month you have an investment of significant value that will yield a nice profit when sold. How much is the 50's era ranch/split going to yield when sold?
Your example seems to be extreme where you've chosen a vintage neighborhood of modest homes that are close to the city center so their land value far exceeds the homes value. You could find the same thing in NY such as Brooklyn which has become a hot housing market forcing prices through the roof but again at least when they sell there is a hefty profit unlike upstate.
There are no $540k bungalows in the COB - this is a Buffalo thread.
- For residential the city of Buffalo tax rate is $24.34/1k NOT 33.45 (17.88 city + 6.46 county) (Homestead)
- COB assessments haven't changed in several years, so taxed value is generally 15%-50% less than resale
A comparably taxed primary residence in the COB ($10,200 + HOA fee) would have an assessed value of $435,500 - or a market value between $500,800 and $653,250.
The highest price listed for ANY home on sale today in the COB on realtor.com is $449.9k. (For reference, it is assessed at $235k with a COB tax bill of $4108)
Just to verify the higher valued homes, I looked at 19 Chapin Pkwy: assessed value of 540K and a city tax of $9646 - 3200sf, 2 story, 10br, 3ba, 9600 sf lot size.
Tax RATE is not relevant in a low cost, low assessed market. Buffalo residents are getting a much better deal than downstate. Congrats NY.
And, Buffalo has a revenue cap so any future assessments will result in a decrease of the tax rate which has been dropping for several years already.
As much as you'd love for NYS not to be one of the highest-taxed states in the nation, it is. Accept it, suck it up.
To be clear, I never said people shouldn't live wherever they want to. Strangely placed strawman.
As an aside, the 1950's were an awful decade for homebuilding. My grandparents' house is a prime example.
Funny irony is, using your stats probably includes massive amounts of inventory downstate on Long Island - yet you muse upon dismissing NYC for ratcheting up tax stats for the whole state.
Anyone with half a boot on the ground in upstate knows the housing stock is bad from Prattsburgh to Yonkers to Ripley. And suburbs in Buffalo and Rochester are degrading because the postwar building boom was just as bad as the building boom in the late 19th century. Age of housing doesn't matter - quality of the build matters. I merely used a time period where a wooden house would age out of the market. My parents' house is an example - along with their whole block and most of my hometown. In 20 years most of the housing stock that presently exists upstate will be at or beyond its reasonable lifespan.
I didn't say NY wasn't the highest taxed state(even though it actually dropped in recent years according to other sources), but there are other aspects to cost of living besides taxes is my point. You either get hit by the government or from the real estate industry.
I know you didn't say people shouldn't live where they want to, but I was getting ahead of the crowd, if you knew how things were on C-D.
Is the housing stock being bad confirmed or is it just an opinion? What about new homes that are built by builders like say Ryan that have had issues in terms of newer homes?
Long Island is a part of the NYC metro area and my point with that is that you can't look at a state solely when looking at cost of living. Upstate NY is totally different in that regard compared to Downstate, including tax structure.
So based on this comparison I would find the Houston home to be a much better value for the money, the taxes are lower and even with the HOA cost which wasn't identified as per year/month you have an investment of significant value that will yield a nice profit when sold. How much is the 50's era ranch/split going to yield when sold?
Your example seems to be extreme where you've chosen a vintage neighborhood of modest homes that are close to the city center so their land value far exceeds the homes value. You could find the same thing in NY such as Brooklyn which has become a hot housing market forcing prices through the roof but again at least when they sell there is a hefty profit unlike upstate.
Not really an extreme example.
Within inner loop Houston, I would estimate that the value of the land exceeds the value of the home for nearly all homes older than 1980, and less than 3000 sf for lots of 4000sf or greater. Especially in the older Wards, many assessments show zero home value, and are taxed on the land only. This, among other issues, makes it difficult to sell/buy homes except on a cash basis.
As a seller, in the current market, owners come out ahead - but buyers not so much.
Houston reassesses homes yearly, based on market value. Taxes are capped at a maximum of 10% increase per year, and most property owners have seen 10% increases each year for 4 years in a row, and at least 2 more years if market values remain steady. The assessments typically put the entire increase on land value, which is usually not challengeable.
As far as value for your money, I see a home as being greater than an interchangeable investment. I can't speak for Brooklyn or LI, but for Buffalo I see great value.
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