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So I understand that you negotiate the price of the car based on what the invoice is.. I talked to other people who have purchased cars in the past but I still don't understand... once you negotiate the price, is that it? Cause that's what they made it appear to be... Are there "other" fees? What about sales tax? I asked them and they said they got a loan before going to the dealership... negotiated on the price, put a down payment, and finance the rest (what the agreed on price was minus the down payment) with the loan and walked out... is that it? No sales tax? Or was that included in the invoice? I am using Edmunds TMV, I don't think that it accounts for sales tax... or does it?
So TMV does not include Tax, Title, License/Registration Fees... so then other than those, is that the price I walk out with? Where do I pay the tax? Do I need to pay the dealer Title and License/Registration Fees or can I do that myself at the DMV/BMV?
What can be done is what I did one time on a used car at a dealership.
There was a posted price and I offerd to pay XXXX dollars total with a cashiers check that included tax and all the DMV fees. There was NO trade in only a CASH deal. Said that I would return within 30 mins with a Cashiers check in hand if there was a deal.
They hemmed and hawed at me and I threatened to walk out the door. Okay they said and then wanted info re paymts/application form and all that garbage. I informed them that I was a New/Used car saleman at one point in my life and all they needed was a bill of sale and forms to register the car with the DMV as required by Law.
They excepted my offer and I returned with the check. Did the paper work and left the car there for smog inspection and would have my son pick it up for me as I lived a few hundred miles away. I drive home and the next day receive a phone call from a bookeeper who said that the IRS had confiscated all the cars at the dealership during the night and my car was gone. Where? I said. He said he would check and call me back. Turned out that the dealership had sent the car over to a independent smog place and thus my car was NOT picked up during the night. Meanwhile I make a few phone calls.
Anyway I called the local IRS office and was told that my Cashiers check was a proof of purchase and the car was legally mine and there would be NO further problems...just pick up the car from it's location which my son did for me.
Lengthy story I know...just to show how a car can be purchased.
That's pretty scary that the IRS was involved, glad you got the car though... so it seems that sales tax is usually paid at the dealership... can I pay DMV fees at the DMV instead? Cause I am buying across state lines...
The MSSP is the thing you are negotaiting on. The tax 'title and registration and safety inspection fees are set by the state and added in after you negotiate the sales price off MSRP.Some states may allow other fees such as documentation fee from what I have seen. In negotiating the price you are not negotiating any of those state fees as they are fixed.They will be listed separate on the contract from the agreed slaes pirce kinf of like when you buy somethig at the store and the state sales tax is then listed and added.The dealer should give you a price sheet that list them which is refered to as OTD orice(out the door). I am nit sure why you would want to pay the tax.You need to check with your state on at what point the tax;titlae and licnese must be paid for.Most require the tax at least to be paid when bought.To pay the registration and licnese fees yourself is a pain mostly and require such documaention as statement of origin on the new vehicle anfd often a inspection by a state authority on the vehilce itself to conifrm that the VIN as when a vehilce is registered from one state to another.Most allow the dealer or the state requires it done at the time of sale.The exception I have seen is whwn the vehicle is bought in a sate other than where it will be register and titled in but the tax is still paid.The insep[etion would be require to drive it out the door tho and usually is already done to allow test driving anyway.One of teh main things I always want is a price sheet shoing the MSRP and the sales orice which altho I never really trade in shows the breakdown including trade in as separate items. I never trade in but I would get the price prior to saying you will trade in anyhting;just say it depends. Thatw ay you will know the real rade in price they are giving you which will not be over wholesale price listed and that is negoiable if they offer less.
I have no trade ins as the older car will be taken over by a sibling... Considering I will be registering the car in another state, I would not pay the title, license and registration fee until I come over to the DMV... I don't mind paying the tax in either state considering they have the same sales tax rate... so I guess other than the agreed upon price, I would just have to pay the sales tax there and then move the car over to my state and pay the title and license/registration fees...
Any state licensed dealer is recalled by law (am only familiar with Calif.) to collect all fees and do the registering with the DMV. They have a DEALERS ONLY window at the DMV where the paper work is done. Each state will do the interstate transfer re the registrations removal from the former state and applied to the new state. I did the transfer of a vehicle from one state to another by giving my old title to the new state and they issued me a new title from there state. This was all done at one visit to the DMV.
I have no trade ins as the older car will be taken over by a sibling... Considering I will be registering the car in another state, I would not pay the title, license and registration fee until I come over to the DMV... I don't mind paying the tax in either state considering they have the same sales tax rate... so I guess other than the agreed upon price, I would just have to pay the sales tax there and then move the car over to my state and pay the title and license/registration fees...
They might be able to take care of all the fees from your state for you.
1) When you "negotiate" the purchase price of the car, most dealerships are negotiating only the "purchase price" of the car. You can work from any guidelines you want ... up from "dealer cost" information, down from sticker price, anywhere from the asked price given your knowledge of hold-backs, promo programs ... whatever. That's what makes the "art" of the transaction so challenging.
2) Probably nobody except the dealership owner and his accountant could possibly even know for sure what the dealership actually pays for a vehicle ... and even they don't know for sure many times at the point of sale because there's rebates, promos, quota discounts, floor plan adjustments to their cost, marketing costs, etc ... which can all change (up or down) their purchase price of the merchandise and can be retro-active to merchandise they've already "bought" on the lot.
3) Many dealerships, after having agreed upon your "purchase price", will then add many fees to your purchase. These include prep, fabric guards, polish/protectants, floor mats, dealer paperwork fees, and a host of other charges which are beyond recognition of what you've bargained for. These are typically added by a finance or insurance person at the dealership after you've made "your deal". It takes a lot of aggressive negotiations on your part to refuse to pay these added on fees ... which can be the marginal increase in profit for a dealership to honor the deal that they made for selling the car. In many cases, the dealership won't allow a deal to go forward if they think the can buffalo you into accepting those extra added fees ... it sounds so reasonable to have "paperwork" or "documentary" fees added to facilitate your purchase. It's really all about getting as much money from you as possible to buy your car. Even if you negotiated an "out the door" selling price, you may find these fees added to your paperwork or hidden into a financing deal from the dealership.
4) Read the purchase order and sales agreement in full. Know exactly what you are spending before signing ANYTHING. DO NOT HAND the Dealership ANY MONEY until you have a signed final sales agreement and purchase order. It is important, too, that you have assurance that the dealership representative that signs the order has the FINAL Authority to "make the deal" on their behalf. You'd be surprised how many times that the salesman or manager isn't the legally binding final authority at the dealership to accept a deal ... and that the dealership hasn't run out of tricks to play after you think you've made a deal.
5) With number 4 in mind, DO NOT ever leave a dealership in a new vehicle until you have ascertained that the final deal in hand is, in fact, the deal. Don't get caught up in the excitement of your new purchase and overlook any detail that can come back on you; if you leave the lot with that new car and the dealership calls you the next day with some "details" that need to be finished up ... inevitably costing you more money ... you can't bring them a "new car" back, it's now a used car. And the dealer is entitled to hold you responsible for the mileage and depreciation of that car, which can be considerable, or refuse to "unwind" your deal if you signed all the purchase acceptance documents.
6) Do your due diligence before heading out to make a purchase. Know what cars interest you, what the local prevailing sales prices are for them, and know what you can realistically can afford to buy and operate. Shop the marketplace, use any negotiating technique or trick you can, and don't buy until the deal is final, complete, and acceptable to you. Remember, the dealership has nothing better to do than to try to stay ahead of you ... and there's enough ignorant buyers who rolll over at the simplest of tricks and emotions that you must stand out as a serious, motivated, and capable buyer at the lowest price possible. How badly does that dealer want your business? On popular sellers that are moving well, maybe not very much .... or maybe he needs to make a "quota" now and you're the sale that will put him over the top ....
7) Sales tax, registration fees, and other gov't fees are not set by the dealer. However, they may be required to collect them as an agent of the gov't. These are legitimate fees that you must pay to complete your purchase to put the vehicle on the street.
Most importantly, HAVE FUN doing this. It's your dough, you should enjoy buying something that you want. If it's turning into a hassle, you're being insulted, or whatever adverse tactic or situation accompanies your purchase process ... WALK AWAY. Some dealerships are nothing but high-pressure sales places and they go through their entire drill just for fun and practice ... others will respect you and deal in good faith. Realize that all of them need and must make a profit on their sales to survive as a business, but they don't have to make all of the profit for the week on your deal.
1) When you "negotiate" the purchase price of the car, most dealerships are negotiating only the "purchase price" of the car. You can work from any guidelines you want ... up from "dealer cost" information, down from sticker price, anywhere from the asked price given your knowledge of hold-backs, promo programs ... whatever. That's what makes the "art" of the transaction so challenging.
2) Probably nobody except the dealership owner and his accountant could possibly even know for sure what the dealership actually pays for a vehicle ... and even they don't know for sure many times at the point of sale because there's rebates, promos, quota discounts, floor plan adjustments to their cost, marketing costs, etc ... which can all change (up or down) their purchase price of the merchandise and can be retro-active to merchandise they've already "bought" on the lot.
3) Many dealerships, after having agreed upon your "purchase price", will then add many fees to your purchase. These include prep, fabric guards, polish/protectants, floor mats, dealer paperwork fees, and a host of other charges which are beyond recognition of what you've bargained for. These are typically added by a finance or insurance person at the dealership after you've made "your deal". It takes a lot of aggressive negotiations on your part to refuse to pay these added on fees ... which can be the marginal increase in profit for a dealership to honor the deal that they made for selling the car. In many cases, the dealership won't allow a deal to go forward if they think the can buffalo you into accepting those extra added fees ... it sounds so reasonable to have "paperwork" or "documentary" fees added to facilitate your purchase. It's really all about getting as much money from you as possible to buy your car. Even if you negotiated an "out the door" selling price, you may find these fees added to your paperwork or hidden into a financing deal from the dealership.
4) Read the purchase order and sales agreement in full. Know exactly what you are spending before signing ANYTHING. DO NOT HAND the Dealership ANY MONEY until you have a signed final sales agreement and purchase order. It is important, too, that you have assurance that the dealership representative that signs the order has the FINAL Authority to "make the deal" on their behalf. You'd be surprised how many times that the salesman or manager isn't the legally binding final authority at the dealership to accept a deal ... and that the dealership hasn't run out of tricks to play after you think you've made a deal.
5) With number 4 in mind, DO NOT ever leave a dealership in a new vehicle until you have ascertained that the final deal in hand is, in fact, the deal. Don't get caught up in the excitement of your new purchase and overlook any detail that can come back on you; if you leave the lot with that new car and the dealership calls you the next day with some "details" that need to be finished up ... inevitably costing you more money ... you can't bring them a "new car" back, it's now a used car. And the dealer is entitled to hold you responsible for the mileage and depreciation of that car, which can be considerable, or refuse to "unwind" your deal if you signed all the purchase acceptance documents.
6) Do your due diligence before heading out to make a purchase. Know what cars interest you, what the local prevailing sales prices are for them, and know what you can realistically can afford to buy and operate. Shop the marketplace, use any negotiating technique or trick you can, and don't buy until the deal is final, complete, and acceptable to you. Remember, the dealership has nothing better to do than to try to stay ahead of you ... and there's enough ignorant buyers who rolll over at the simplest of tricks and emotions that you must stand out as a serious, motivated, and capable buyer at the lowest price possible. How badly does that dealer want your business? On popular sellers that are moving well, maybe not very much .... or maybe he needs to make a "quota" now and you're the sale that will put him over the top ....
7) Sales tax, registration fees, and other gov't fees are not set by the dealer. However, they may be required to collect them as an agent of the gov't. These are legitimate fees that you must pay to complete your purchase to put the vehicle on the street.
Most importantly, HAVE FUN doing this. It's your dough, you should enjoy buying something that you want. If it's turning into a hassle, you're being insulted, or whatever adverse tactic or situation accompanies your purchase process ... WALK AWAY. Some dealerships are nothing but high-pressure sales places and they go through their entire drill just for fun and practice ... others will respect you and deal in good faith. Realize that all of them need and must make a profit on their sales to survive as a business, but they don't have to make all of the profit for the week on your deal.
Number 2 is a great reason to handle the financing independent of the dealership and not come close to the financing weasel. I just purchased a car this week and got preapproval for a specific dollar limit from my credit union. Got if for almost @300 under invoice and about $1,800 less than what Edmunds said was the typical selling price for my area. The car is being ordered and hopefully they can get one already on the boat coming over.
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