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And Gary Nelson. Kyle Petty never won another race after NASCAR hired him away. I bet NASCAR will hire Chad Knaus when he decides to leave HMS.
BTW, this is a good thread you started.
Oh yeah.. Gary Nelson.. He might be the biggest cheater that was out there. Well.. Short of Evernham. They're close. Story of the T-Rex.. That's another one I could do.
It's enjoyable.. I like how threads can take one topic and branch off into more, still interesting discussions.
I think Smokey Yunick may have been done that before Ernie. Read on his 7/8 scale Chevelle. Cant talk about stretching the rules without mention Smokey. Some of the things he did was just genius. He was stretching the rules before they made them.
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Originally Posted by Labonte18
And you have to mention Robin Pemberton as well.. The man who bent the rules so much NASCAR just hired him to stop him and have him catch everyone else.
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Originally Posted by WFW&P
And Gary Nelson. Kyle Petty never won another race after NASCAR hired him away. I bet NASCAR will hire Chad Knaus when he decides to leave HMS.
BTW, this is a good thread you started.
before we claim these guys were cheating, understand that most of what these guys did was not against the rules, since often times there was no rule about what they did. as a crew chief it is our job to study the rule books, and find ways to make the car better and still legal.
for instance, when smoky put nitrous oxide on one of his race cars, and it was successful, nascar made a rule that engines can use gasoline only as a fuel. smoky argued, correctly i might add, the nitrous oxide is not a fuel but an oxidizer, and thus he was allowed to use it again, until nascar made a rule stating "no pressure systems allowed", which kill nitrous usage.
the reality is that if you are not pushing the rules, you are not trying hard enough.
before we claim these guys were cheating, understand that most of what these guys did was not against the rules, since often times there was no rule about what they did. as a crew chief it is our job to study the rule books, and find ways to make the car better and still legal.
for instance, when smoky put nitrous oxide on one of his race cars, and it was successful, nascar made a rule that engines can use gasoline only as a fuel. smoky argued, correctly i might add, the nitrous oxide is not a fuel but an oxidizer, and thus he was allowed to use it again, until nascar made a rule stating "no pressure systems allowed", which kill nitrous usage.
the reality is that if you are not pushing the rules, you are not trying hard enough.
Cheating is easier than saying master rule manipulator....from me anyway.
Oh yeah.. Gary Nelson.. He might be the biggest cheater that was out there. Well.. Short of Evernham. They're close. Story of the T-Rex.. That's another one I could do.
It's enjoyable.. I like how threads can take one topic and branch off into more, still interesting discussions.
Yes, T-rex. What could have been had NASCAR let that be approved.
in other words, you are the type that if there is no rule about something, its illegal?
Flip it around.. Are you the type that says "It depends on what the definition of "is" is?"
Yeah, of course IN SOME CASES.. These guys were bending, not breaking the rules. And of course, there's the old adage of "If you don't get caught, it ain't cheating"
Junior Johnson quite often was cheating.. Not working within the 'gray' area of the rulebook. He got popped with an illegal intake manifold that even Nelson said he was amazed at the sophistication of back in.. 94 or 95.
Waltrip's teams with the fuel additive.. That's black and white cheating.
The cars that had ball bearings in the door that they'd dump on the track when the race started.. That's cheating.
Using an unapproved part.. That's.. Technically cheating.
Having a part made of titanium when the rulebook doesn't specifically say that it cannot be titanium or must be steel.. That's working in the gray area.
Flip it around.. Are you the type that says "It depends on what the definition of "is" is?"
Yeah, of course IN SOME CASES.. These guys were bending, not breaking the rules. And of course, there's the old adage of "If you don't get caught, it ain't cheating"
Junior Johnson quite often was cheating.. Not working within the 'gray' area of the rulebook. He got popped with an illegal intake manifold that even Nelson said he was amazed at the sophistication of back in.. 94 or 95.
Waltrip's teams with the fuel additive.. That's black and white cheating.
The cars that had ball bearings in the door that they'd dump on the track when the race started.. That's cheating.
Using an unapproved part.. That's.. Technically cheating.
Having a part made of titanium when the rulebook doesn't specifically say that it cannot be titanium or must be steel.. That's working in the gray area.
i worked in the grey areas, and the areas not set forth in the rules. as for unapproved parts, they are not unapproved until nascar, or the sanctioning body in question, says so.
My memory is vague concerning the "t rex" so I googled it, and from what I read, the car was taken after The Winston, but I would have swore it was after the 600, when Gordon lost a wheel or wrecked or something to cause the front wheel to come off, and thats when modifications were noted and forced them to release the car to Nascar. am I thinking right?
i worked in the grey areas, and the areas not set forth in the rules. as for unapproved parts, they are not unapproved until nascar, or the sanctioning body in question, says so.
They're unapproved until they're approved. at least in today's rulebook they are. There was a huge to-do about this a few years back where several teams got hit with fines and suspensions (I think.. I know there were fines) because.. I think Dodge sent out the new nose to the teams before it had been approved.
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Originally Posted by UpstateJohn
My memory is vague concerning the "t rex" so I googled it, and from what I read, the car was taken after The Winston, but I would have swore it was after the 600, when Gordon lost a wheel or wrecked or something to cause the front wheel to come off, and thats when modifications were noted and forced them to release the car to Nascar. am I thinking right?
It was The Winston. They took that car and told Hendrick "Never bring this back" and wound up writing a whole bunch of new regulations in the rule book before the next week. HMS Chassis No. 2429, aka 'T-Rex' | Hendrick Motorsports
Of course, as you say.. He wound up dominating and winning the 600 as well.. and that was in the middle of those magical '97 and '98 seasons that he had.. You about could have put him out there in a Pinto and he'd have still won 5 races.
I do remember what you're thinking of though.. He had a wheel come off and the found it was an illegal hub.. And you're right about Charlotte as well, I think.. It was in the 600, just not in 97.. I'll see what I can find.
That might have been 1995.. Wow.. I didn't think it was that long ago. It must have been, tho, because he was top-10 in '96 and won in 97 and 98..
That's it.. Evernham was fined $60k for it. So, it was the '95 Coke 600.
Last edited by Labonte18; 03-03-2017 at 03:44 PM..
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