Austin traffic update: we're scr*wed (Houston, Katy: rent, home, salary)

[Raskolnikov]

Originally Posted by sojourner77

Then make the suburbs pay the price!!!

If they want to commute into Downtown Austin, they can pay a toll or carpool on I-35.

There is a lot of elitism in that statement and I'd like to address it:

1. The suburbs already couldn't afford to "pay the price" to live right downtown because it's too expensive. Austin deserves some of the blame for creating the suburbs because of the lack of affordable housing, and runaway gentrification on the East Side (which pushed black families out to Hutto and Kyle and Round Rock).

2. It isn't only the suburbs causing traffic! Austin has overbuilt apartments and condos inside the core, without road improvements that other saner cities would have done. How about the people who live in brand-new apartments or Condos all up and down Lamar, from 183 to all the way down near the Broken Spoke? But Lamar wasn't improved. Or the people in apartments on South Congress all the way down to Ben White? (S. Congress was 'improved' by adding in back-in parking spaces, which is ludicrous.) What price should the urban dwellers in apartments pay? No matter which direction they drive - toward downtown or toward the suburbs or toward a hip east austin eatery, they're causing traffic too. They also get in wrecks.

Seeing the suburbs as the only problem with Austin traffic is just wrong.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

There is a lot of elitism in that statement and I'd like to address it:

1. The suburbs already couldn't afford to "pay the price" to live right downtown because it's too expensive. Austin deserves some of the blame for creating the suburbs because of the lack of affordable housing, and runaway gentrification on the East Side (which pushed black families out to Hutto and Kyle and Round Rock).

Because suburbs are a uniquely-Austin development, that have never developed ringing any other cities in America.

Right.

Suburbs are a consistent development throughout America, in part due to explicit or implicit encouragement in laws, regulations, development and taxing structures at the federal/state/county level.

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

What price should the urban dwellers in apartments pay?

They already do pay.

Despite _using_ the roads much less (some don't even drive. Or they take transit. or even those that do put much less mileage on those roads compared to a surburban commuter putting 60 miles a day on roads) they pay much more (compared to a surburban commuter in another municipality, they pay _infinitely_ more in city taxes and transportation user fees).

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

No matter which direction they drive - toward downtown or toward the suburbs or toward a hip east austin eatery, they're causing traffic too. They also get in wrecks.

Again, much less (it's roughly a function of mileage). And again, compared to a suburban commuter, they're actually paying for the police/fire that respond to their wreck.

[Rynldsbr]

So, in summary, we have all the cool, hipsters and millenials living in the city and jacking up the values. The resulting gentrification causes the minorities and commoners to move to the suburbs. The new suburbanites drive to work in the city and get blasted by the hipsters and millenials for congesting the traffic. This requires expensive new roads which the hipsters and millenials don't use because they all ride bikes or use mass transit, yet are p.o.'ed because they have to pay for the infrastructure that is necessary because they displaced the original population to the burbs...did I get that right?


Perhaps what we need is a really deep and extended recession so there are no more jobs here, then people would quit moving here and clogging up the roads...

[HeadedWest]

Originally Posted by earthisle

Unfortunately the city never had the ability to control development outside city limits, and now the city is paying the price for the suburbs' ballooning. Funny how that works.

The city did have the ability to permit road building inside the city limits.

[earthisle]

Originally Posted by Rynldsbr

So, in summary, we have all the cool, hipsters and millenials living in the city and jacking up the values. The resulting gentrification causes the minorities and commoners to move to the suburbs. The new suburbanites drive to work in the city and get blasted by the hipsters and millenials for congesting the traffic. This requires expensive new roads which the hipsters and millenials don't use because they all ride bikes or use mass transit, yet are p.o.'ed because they have to pay for the infrastructure that is necessary because they displaced the original population to the burbs...did I get that right?


Perhaps what we need is a really deep and extended recession so there are no more jobs here, then people would quit moving here and clogging up the roads...

I think you're off. Most of the population of the suburbs is not people who were displaced by gentrification. The vast majority are people moving here from other areas of Texas and other states to join the Austin boom.

And it's not people in the urban neighborhoods complaining about traffic, it's people living in the suburbs. I have a 10 minute commute.

[ashbeeigh]

Originally Posted by earthisle

I think you're off. Most of the population of the suburbs is not people who were displaced by gentrification. The vast majority are people moving here from other areas of Texas and other states to join the Austin boom.

And it's not people in the urban neighborhoods complaining about traffic, it's people living in the suburbs. I have a 10 minute commute.

I've cited this article a few times in regard to the displacement of Austin residents. It was very insightful and gave a great analysis of the flight of older African American residents to northeast and east suburbs like Pflugerville, Round Rock and Del Valle. http://liberalarts.utexas.edu/iupra/...eft-austin.pdf

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by earthisle

I think you're off. Most of the population of the suburbs is not people who were displaced by gentrification. The vast majority are people moving here from other areas of Texas and other states to join the Austin boom.

And it's not people in the urban neighborhoods complaining about traffic, it's people living in the suburbs. I have a 10 minute commute.

I think people tend to forget that not everyone works downtown. Neither my husband nor I work anywhere near downtown. We bought our house 11 years ago based upon where we work. But it now takes me 30 minutes in the morning to drive 2 miles where as it used to take maybe 5 minutes. And I'm not anywhere near downtown. The city has managed to annex most of this area, so it is within city limits now, but has done little to nothing to improve it. And there is absolutely no public transportation, bus or otherwise, that runs where I need to go (also in city limits).

[CarnivalGal]

And things like this don't help. BTW, there is absolutely no public transportation service for City Park Road or 360, so everyone moving to this development will have no choice but to drive.

Residents near City Park Road upset over rezoning of Champions tract - Four Points News

[earthisle]

Originally Posted by ashbeeigh

I've cited this article a few times in regard to the displacement of Austin residents. It was very insightful and gave a great analysis of the flight of older African American residents to northeast and east suburbs like Pflugerville, Round Rock and Del Valle. http://liberalarts.utexas.edu/iupra/...eft-austin.pdf

I'm not saying people aren't being displaced to the suburbs, I'm saying they don't make up the majority of people living in the suburbs

[riaelise]

Originally Posted by earthisle

I think you're off. Most of the population of the suburbs is not people who were displaced by gentrification. The vast majority are people moving here from other areas of Texas and other states to join the Austin boom.

And it's not people in the urban neighborhoods complaining about traffic, it's people living in the suburbs. I have a 10 minute commute.

Right. there are many IN AUSTIN who have a longer commute than you and they complain too. Your urban section is just a fraction of the entire city's population. The people who live in far north Austin mind as well live in Cedar Park. Traffic affects more people than not and it's ridiculous to think that the suburbs are directly to blame for Austin's "traffic problem"..as if Austin's population hasn't been similarly exploding. Surprise! the population has exploded throughout the MSA!


As for me, I live in the suburbs because I want to. I actually moved from Austin 12 years ago and haven't looked back. The only person who really has a dog in this traffic fight is me because my husband works in north Austin. But I must thank Cap Metro because I sleep in traffic.