I went to GDOT's Open House for I-285 Express Lanes (Pitts: 2015, townhome)

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by architect77

Only GDOT would have open houses on Thursday at afternoon rush hours.

Unless they thought it would underscore the need for the project by arranging citizens to navigate there at the worst time.

Im pretty sure they purposely coordinated those times to 'prevent' as many people from showing up to discuss this project as possible, there's definitely alot of friction about these lanes.

[architect77]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Im pretty sure they purposely coordinated those times to 'prevent' as many people from showing up to discuss this project as possible, there's definitely alot of friction about these lanes.

That may be true, but it would be definitely passive/aggressive then.

Because at the two meetings I attended they were bragging about this being their most transparent approach ever with regards to reaching out and listening to the public's concerns and opinions.

I still left the meetings with the visual of a blank, clueless countenance from the GDOT representatives, when I asked about aesthetics, or which department oversaw the signage placement, or the litter along the shoulders and in the median of I-20 and I-75 which never gets picked up.

They all seem like they work in a vacuum and haven't even looked at how other states do things. They definitely give you a blank stare when you ask them.

One young engineer even hailed from NC, down by the coast near Jacksonville.

I'm down there frequently in the summer, and perhaps he's too untraveled at this point to have a good idea of how Georgia's roadside infrastructure compares to all the other states.

The only thing I learned at this "Top End" meeting was that our wide freeways aren't sloped in only one direction to shed water.

'The 1st and 2nd innermost lanes are sloped to the center divider where hopefully the drainage grates aren't clogged.

Still though, our water ponding problems can be traced back to sloping and not crowning the freeways enough to shed heavy rainfall.

As a result, they have to use aerated asphalt to give the water somewhere to go briefly. This mix needs replacing twice as often as regular concrete.

[architect77]

I want heavy rail expansion in Atlanta.

I want light rail for the Beltline.

But to the road haters, here's a report of mass transit ridership in the US: Reaching new lows from back the 70s.

https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25635/an...eid=e1c87fc71d


These hideous redos of Atlanta's formerly attractive interstates will affect everyone in the metro.

The entire region will get it's image tarnished, and indirectly people's home values and quality of life could be diminished.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by architect77

I want heavy rail expansion in Atlanta.

I want light rail for the Beltline.

But to the road haters, here's a report of mass transit ridership in the US: Reaching new lows from back the 70s.

https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25635/an...eid=e1c87fc71d


These hideous redos of Atlanta's formerly attractive interstates will affect everyone in the metro.

The entire region will get it's image tarnished, and indirectly people's home values and quality of life could be diminished.

Two of the chief drivers of the decline of mass transit are worsened bus service and the rise of ridesharing.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Two of the chief drivers of the decline of mass transit are worsened bus service and the rise of ridesharing.

This.

The biggest issues with Mass Transit (especially in the form of Busses) is that it doesnt provide a faster or sometimes even more reliable commute than driving. This is why signal prioritization will be extremely important for BRT / ART routes to make them more viable than driving. With MARTA rail specifically its great if you live ITP or close to I-285 but as with 80% of the metro population they have to drive so far to a station they may as well drive the rest of the way to work, that's 'if' they even work Downtown.

Add to that, transfers and sometimes scheduling issues, you would have to coordinate transfer routes effectively so you practically have the next ride waiting on you as you exit the first one and it's easy to see why many people choose to drive. Driving is much more flexible than even the most robust transit systems all over the world. Where driving falls though is capacity and reliability (in comparison to rail transit and BRT).

I dont necessarily hate roads. I see the need for automobiles. The problem I have is that it's all this country is dedicating to and its impractical to provide the needs for reliable, fast commutes to the masses especially in fast growing urban areas. As the city grows, more people move in, they become (or remain) auto-dependent, road infrastructure has to be upgraded to accommodate for it, but it can only go so far before it becomes impractical to expand (and that doesnt mean just financially) especially within low density living. High density and rail nodes are going to be a must for the future unless we want to continue cancerous sprawling patterns

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I dont necessarily hate roads. I see the need for automobiles. The problem I have is that it's all this country is dedicating to and its impractical to provide the needs for reliable, fast commutes to the masses especially in fast growing urban areas. As the city grows, more people move in, they become (or remain) auto-dependent, road infrastructure has to be upgraded to accommodate for it, but it can only go so far before it becomes impractical to expand (and that doesnt mean just financially) especially within low density living. High density and rail nodes are going to be a must for the future unless we want to continue cancerous sprawling patterns

And for GDOT to spend 11-figure sums on these express lanes is doubling down on stupid.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Two of the chief drivers of the decline of mass transit are worsened bus service and the rise of ridesharing.

Its been going on since well before ridesharing. Its really better economic conditions. Almost nobody with a choice rides local buses.

[Gulch]

Sandy Springs residents may fight loss of homes for I-285 toll lanes

After learning that the Georgia Department of Transportation’s I-285 top end project might take down their homes, residents of new townhomes have sent a letter in opposition and are considering legal action against the department to fight to keep their property.

In Sandy Springs, properties facing significant displacement include a house at 374 Mount Vernon Highway; two townhomes off Lake Forrest Drive at I-285; and two buildings in the Sierra Place apartments on Northwood Drive, according to maps revealed by GDOT in January.

Rebecca Trumbo and Kalen Wheeler, two townhome owners targeted for displacement at the Parc at Chastain on Taylor Way, learned of the plan from the Reporter and said they were not contacted by GDOT.

“These are new-construction townhomes. I just closed in April. A lot of us did,” Trumbo said. “So we haven’t even lived here a year.”

“Well, I hope they are offering me a lot of money,” Wheeler said when she first heard about the conceptual plans.

The townhomes are on Taylor Way, a street near Lake Forrest Drive that dead-ends at I-285’s embankment. While only two of the five townhomes are marked for displacement, the owners fear all five homes on the road will have to come down.

“We don’t see how they can’t tear down all five. They’re townhomes with mutual walls,” Trumbo said.

Trumbo said the homeowners plan to band together to hire a lawyer to fight the potential taking.

“We are discussing hiring a lawyer all together to fight this because none of us have heard from GDOT,” Trumbo said.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Sandy Springs residents may fight loss of homes for I-285 toll lanes

Admittedly - as a recent home buyer, this is where I would have to say if I were in their shoes... I would be absolutely livid...

Comparably on Google Maps this is what that area used to look like before they built those townhomes:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9146...7i16384!8i8192

It looks like they tore down that older home on the hill up there to build those town homes. I do question if the developer knew about this though, the plans for these lanes have been lingering for some time... either way though the home buyers there really got yolked on this. If they go through with it I really hope GDOT pays off their mortgage and leaves enough for them to get another home.

Originally Posted by bu2

Its been going on since well before ridesharing. Its really better economic conditions. Almost nobody with a choice rides local buses.

Most people choose not to use transit is because for them specifically - it doesn't offer a faster or more reliable way than driving. There are economic factors at play but those tend to get very extreme before there is a shift to transit for the average driver, and outside of the 'perceived' social classes those also have little to do with the shift toward automobiles.

Transit only earned its economic status reputation when many routes and lines were no longer able to be operated by privately owned entities and were sold off to local governments in bankruptcy situation. What drove them into bankruptcy was the era of the automobile because buses, street cars and road-sharing nodes had to compete on the same congested arteries that automobiles did and lost all advantage they had in providing reliable commutes, thus slowly people were willing to pay less and less to use them and eventually switched to automobiles. Given during that era, we didn't have anywhere NEAR the amount of automobiles as we do today, driving a car and owning your own method of transportation was not only seen as a status thing, but also offered more reliable commutes and flexibility. There were also other factors specifically exclusive to America such as lobbysts in Auto Manufacturing industries as well as Oil industries that practically sealed the fate of reliable transit. After those lines were bought off by government agencies they 'became' seen as a low income welfare transit node and typically the fares as well as funding contributions were just enough to keep them operating but seldomly enough to offering anything innovative in terms of improvements to offer more reliable services.

If transit today, even in the form of buses, offered means of more reliable commutes than automobiles and charged accordingly to perform excelling services, as in a true way to beat traffic for the masses - it would not be seen as a welfare system - nor should it be seen as such. Its not economics, or not solely, its conditioning. Evidence of this is all over Europe and China as while they incorporate automobiles into their transit scheme, they do not solely rely on them as the only means of commuting throughout a major metro area. Even some cities here in the USA, plenty of professionals are willing to take a bus or train to get to work, and many of which are high earners.

For buses to work accordingly they need signal priority and an actual advantage to traffic rather than sitting in the same traffic jams.

The problem with catering strictly to automobiles is America is deceiving itself if we think we can just plop every single citizen in the country in a SFH 60 - 70 miles away from the core of the city while providing infrastructure to commute in every single direction while cities grow further and further away from the core. Some sprawl is inevitable. Its going to happen but it shouldn't be let loose like a wild dog so to speak, it massively consumes resources, land, nature, and seems to have little concern to the consequences of devouring more and more land and acres to grow further and further away. Also as we become increasingly auto-dependent - in the event of another fuel crisis - what will happen to our primary mode of transportation? (This is a very real threat, people tend to forget what happened when our fuel prices last hit $5.00 per gallon) -- I personally would rather have alternative means of commuting. I'm not axeing cars out the equation, but I'm saying cars shouldn't be the only part of the math. This country as a whole, with growing populations needs to start thinking smarter in terms of growth and transportation planning rather than following political agenda's and schemes that keep oil companies rich or we may find ourselves heavily blindsided by severe consequences in terms of endless suburbs as the lack of feasibility.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

A Also as we become increasingly auto-dependent - in the event of another fuel crisis - what will happen to our primary mode of transportation? (This is a very real threat, people tend to forget what happened when our fuel prices last hit $5.00 per gallon) -- I personally would rather have alternative means of commuting. I'm not axeing cars out the equation, but I'm saying cars shouldn't be the only part of the math. This country as a whole, with growing populations needs to start thinking smarter in terms of growth and transportation planning rather than following political agenda's and schemes that keep oil companies rich or we may find ourselves heavily blindsided by severe consequences in terms of endless suburbs as the lack of feasibility.

If we have another energy crisis of perpetual $5.00/gallon gas, this region would be toast.