MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Sandy Springs: sales tax, living)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Good grief, as I have explained NUMEROUS times before, there is no realistic way MARTA is going to get away with running commuter rail just to East Point. Not only will the public complain, but the freight railroads simply won't allow it unless they build an expensive siding track, that there really isn't room for. A single train turning around takes about 20 minutes. It's not as simple as throwing it in reverse and cranking open the throttle like your car. CSX and NS (CSX's busy Atlanta-Savannah/Jacksonville mainline joins right at East Point) are simply not going to want multiple passenger trains tying up the mainline for a third of an hour!

Right, which is why there needs to be studies done. I WANT to see the cost comparison between options. I want to see just how much more expensive building a new, separate parallel track, double tracking the whole thing with signal upgrades, or running HRT/LRT along the whole thing.

I absolutely agree that only to Eastpoint won't fly, which is why, if commuter rail shows to be viable, there should be a platform under/around 5 Points built. If it's HSR, it should be a Gold or Red Line extension.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

if it's hsr, it should be a gold or red line extension.

* hrt

[magnetar]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I'm not a troll about transit. Any regular poster here who pays attention knows that I'm a staunch supporter of heavy rail.

All I said was $8 billion seems like an awful lot of money for a few additional stops on 400, some along I-20 (doesn't say how many) and a spur to Emory.

Even if the common wisdom of $200 million per mile of new track applies, is this plan going to result in 40 miles of new track?

The biggest public works package in decades would have other elements as well. In DeKalb County, there would be a rail link to Emory University and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, plus another line shooting eastward along I-20. Within the city of Atlanta, the Beltline awaits.

Well the BeltLine is over 20 miles alone.

I mean...

[netdragon]

Glad I don't have to pay Fulton County sales tax much anymore.

Commuter rail TO ATLANTA is a bad idea when there are large job centers all over the metro. It's not centralized like some metros.

The wheel and spoke design is a fail. If I live in Alpharetta and work in Town Center area, I'm not going to go through Atlanta to do it. Likewise if I live in Kennesaw and work at Windward Pkwy, same deal.

It's ironic that people complain about Cobb's LRT/BRT concept being self-serving, when MARTA does the same thing.

[jsvh]

netdragon - I think people mostly complain about Cobb's BRT / LRT being non-existent. And if and when it ever does come to be, it will connect to Atlanta too.

Also, the expiring MOST sales tax will mean no net tax increase. And Fulton's property taxes are still lower than Cobb.

[jjbradleynyc]

Originally Posted by bu2

Ridiculous waste of money. We don't need passenger rail going everywhere. We have airplanes. We have buses. The rural areas are losing population.

When I read that, it's probably similar to what someone said in the '70s about cell phones, like "we don't need mobile phones. There's no use for those. We have long cords and rotaries--the wall jack will do the job and we'll never see those in our lifetime."

There's a couple of them in every crowd.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by netdragon

Glad I don't have to pay Fulton County sales tax much anymore.

Commuter rail TO ATLANTA is a bad idea when there are large job centers all over the metro. It's not centralized like some metros.

The wheel and spoke design is a fail. If I live in Alpharetta and work in Town Center area, I'm not going to go through Atlanta to do it. Likewise if I live in Kennesaw and work at Windward Pkwy, same deal.

It's ironic that people complain about Cobb's LRT/BRT concept being self-serving, when MARTA does the same thing.

MARTA serves only DeKalb and Fulton now. The I-285 north ideas and Clifton Corridor ideas don't run through downtown. And the Red line serves 3 of the major employment areas-downtown/midtown, Buckhead and Perimeter Mall.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc

When I read that, it's probably similar to what someone said in the '70s about cell phones, like "we don't need mobile phones. There's no use for those. We have long cords and rotaries--the wall jack will do the job and we'll never see those in our lifetime."

There's a couple of them in every crowd.

No, I just don't think we need to go back to 1890s technology and have slow passenger trains to Americus, Valdosta, LaGrange and wherever else that 29 lines article wants to put them.

Its amazing the number of people who fail to see that the past changed because there are better alternatives now. They want passenger trains to every little town and streetcars all over the place averaging just a little better than walking speed while making it difficult to drive a car.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by bu2

No, I just don't think we need to go back to 1890s technology.

You mean the internal combustion engine that is inside 99% of all vehicles currently on the road?

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by netdragon

Glad I don't have to pay Fulton County sales tax much anymore.

Commuter rail TO ATLANTA is a bad idea when there are large job centers all over the metro. It's not centralized like some metros.

The wheel and spoke design is a fail. If I live in Alpharetta and work in Town Center area, I'm not going to go through Atlanta to do it. Likewise if I live in Kennesaw and work at Windward Pkwy, same deal.

It's ironic that people complain about Cobb's LRT/BRT concept being self-serving, when MARTA does the same thing.

The thing is, for it to be a wheel and spoke, you need more than the spokes. Look at our interstates, the major business and employment centers lie on or near them, which is where the current and past expansions have been planned. Revive 285, in particular, connects centers along I-75, I-85, and GA-400. For that to work best, though, you need the High Capacity transit along those routes, reaching out to the centers, before the 285 arc makes sense.

Furthermore, it's a bit disingenuous to complain about not having the non-Atlanta (or Fulton or DeKalb) centers connected and none of the others when they're the ones who have been paying for the service this whole time. If Cobb and Gwinnett want to be connected with rail, they need to pay for it, either with their own rail connections, or join MARTA and let it do the planning/work as it has plenty before.

Originally Posted by bu2

No, I just don't think we need to go back to 1890s technology and have slow passenger trains to Americus, Valdosta, LaGrange and wherever else that 29 lines article wants to put them.

Its amazing the number of people who fail to see that the past changed because there are better alternatives now. They want passenger trains to every little town and streetcars all over the place averaging just a little better than walking speed while making it difficult to drive a car.

So what are your ideas? Not trying to be condescending, just genuinely curious.

The reason commuter rail comes up still is because of how well it works elsewhere still. Europe, for all it's similarities and differences, is still crossed by innumerable intercity and commuter and high speed rail networks. Japan, arguably one of the most technologically leading country in the world, is packed full of the same.

Yes there's a density issue, but there are plenty of areas here in the metro where it would work out. It doesn't have to be every town, be the better the spread, the better the coverage, the better we should be off.That's especially true when the build out of commuter rail can help our state's freight rail capacity with track and signal upgrades, improving business possibilities.