Westminster experience for African Americans (renting, neighborhood, private schools)

[Gddyupn]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

It isn't a marriage, it is a much easier decision to undo. If Westminster turns out not to be a good fit, then apply to Woodward for high school or even sooner. Kids come and go from private schools for 9th grade fairly frequently.

Great point, and I'd sort of thought that myself, so it's reassuring to hear someone else voice that thought.

[Gddyupn]

Here's the thing everyone, I appreciate all of the comments telling me that I should disregard the hair and choose Woodward. But honestly, that wasn't really my question. I'd like to take the hair out of it for a minute, because in discussing this with my son last night, we did the same thing. I asked him to take the hair out of it, and then tell me where he'd go to school. He still replied Westminster. I think, personality wise, he feels he fits in better with them. We've been to the school several times, and I've never gotten a snobby, snooty feel from the kids. We did get that feeling when we toured Pace though.

Perhaps I worded it poorly, or provided too much or too little information. But the question for me, truly was only, what are your Westminster experiences? Are there any african american posters, or posters who have african american friends, who can give me some feedback based on actual experiences.

I am not racist, nor are my kids. We have spent 7 years at one of the most diverse and open minded schools in Atlanta. However, I will not pretend that racism, both subtle and blatant, don't still exist. And I would like to make an informed decision about Westminster (not Woodward) based on actual experiences.

Thank you everyone for all of the help

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

If you have Dunwoody listed as your address, you're not getting into Westminster, so I doubt the south side has any significant representation.

Where do you come up with some of this stuff?

You give a lot of good info on here, but some is so misguided it is amazing.

[MisterNY]

Originally Posted by pinetreelover

Either school will provide an excellent educational experience for your son, but it is very hard for me to believe that you are going to pay $22,000 per year for the next several years for an education for your child and the school's "hair policy" turns out to be the deciding factor.

College admissions, religious emphasis, test scores, community involvement.... there are many other features that differentiate private schools that are worthy of using as a "litmus test", but the hair policy???

Addressing the OP:

What's more important to you? Education or hairstyle? Let your child decide, and deal with the rules of the school, he chooses. If basing your child's individuality on hairstyles, there are other issues if you ask me. I teach my kids that character, intelligence and philanthropy/generosity are more important than any hairstyle or brand name clothing. The irony would be him going to a school to escape cutting his hair, just to realize he could care less about the haircut a year later.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

That doesn't concern me because my kid knows that even if we won a $300 million lottery, it wouldn't matter. I will not simply hand him things he hasn't earned. He'll know that he doesn't have some of the things they do have because his parents won't allow it, not because we can't afford it. And for the things we can't afford, then perhaps that will motivate him to work harder when he grows up, so he can afford them on his own.

Great lessons to teach them.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

I am not asking them to change their stance. Do I find it antiquated? Yes. Do I think it unfair? Yes.

Why is it unfair? It would only be unfair if they singled him out, but these are rules, and he must like every other child, black or white, abide by them. That's life. We must learn to live by the rules, and conform. People put too much emphasis on hairstyles and whatnot. I'm not talking about you specifically. I just think our generation is raising our kids to be narcissitic.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

They interviewed this child and he had long hair when they interviewed him. No one mentioned a word. They accepted him, based on his grades, teacher recommendations, and SSAT scores, all with this same long hair, and no one said a word. So obviously his hair doesn't impede his ability to learn, but it does violate their dress code. Fine, but I do feel that someone should have mentioned it to us at some point during the intensive application process. We happened to hear it ancedotely from friends, and I called to check. Otherwise, we might have paid the full tuition, and then shown up on the first day of school, completely unaware of the problem. Only to be told, $22K later, cut his hair or leave? That's not fair to me.

You have a point, but when they interviewed him, was he already accepted? I don't see anything unfair here. They interviewed him based on his grades, recommendations and scores as you stated. Once they accept him, he has to abide by the rules. JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER KIDS DID!!

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

Also, very few at the school are even aware of the policy, I had to be transferred several times before they could find someone who knew for certain. That seems to scream to me that this isn't a policy that's overly important to them in 2011.

While you may be right about the policy, it seems to me that you're making more of an issue of it, than the school itself. My advice is: LET your son decide, and deal with the rules of whichever school he decides to attend.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

I think my kid could thrive at either school.

That's what's important. Now, let him decide.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

Also, we are a Woodward legacy.

Still, let him decide. That should hold no weight on his decision.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

So we've got two schools, both excellent academic opportunities (though admittedly Westminster moreso than Woodward), both with strong athletic programs (though admittedly Woodward moreso than Westminster), both with good test scores, college placement rates, both costing the same - so at this point, the deciding factor would have to be which one is the better personality fit for my child. And if he doesn't want to cut his hair, and Woodward says he has to, then Woodward wouldn't be the best fit, would it?

Again, let him decide. Whatever decision he makes, let him deal wtih it. That's building character.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

If you had two jobs available to you, both pay the same, both offer the same opportunity for advancement - but to get one you'd have to shave your head and facial hair, and the other you merely had to present a neat and professional appearance - which one would you choose? But it would be a choice, right? And no one would castigate you for it, right?

Another thing, that caught my attention. You say, your child has been in private school all his life, he should be used to stringent rules. This should be nothing new. If the issue is not hair, it's something else. He should not make a stink of it. I've been in private school my entire life, and dealt with everything that was thrown at me. No prima donnas in my house!!

To answer your question:
I'd chose the best one for me. It wouldn't be about hair and shaving heads, but a deep analysis of future growth, salary, and balance of family life.

[magny13]

Deja vu! I recently posted something similar to this thread. OP, if your child is telling you Westminster, I think he's old enough to make the choice. It seems to me you're the one who wants Woodward because it has more diversity or more specifically because it has double the percentage of African Americans. I think 9% is a big enough percentage of AA for your child to feel comfortable and as if he's not the only one. As a Hispanic, it will be much tougher for my child unless I send her to Atlanta International School or to some degree Catholic schools. It breaks my heart to have to send her to a place that is a lesser challenge for her though just for the sake of fitting in.

[lastminutemom]

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

Great point, and I'd sort of thought that myself, so it's reassuring to hear someone else voice that thought.

If he is leaning to Westminster and the commute isn't a problem for you (don't forget to factor in athletics and what that means to your family), then let him go there.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

Here's the thing everyone, I appreciate all of the comments telling me that I should disregard the hair and choose Woodward. But honestly, that wasn't really my question. I'd like to take the hair out of it for a minute, because in discussing this with my son last night, we did the same thing. I asked him to take the hair out of it, and then tell me where he'd go to school. He still replied Westminster. I think, personality wise, he feels he fits in better with them. We've been to the school several times, and I've never gotten a snobby, snooty feel from the kids. We did get that feeling when we toured Pace though.

Sounds like a kid with a good head on his shoulders.

I think people often tend to stereotype too much (and I'm speaking in general, not to you Giddyupn). Places like Woodward and Westminster are way out of my league but I have known a number of people who went to both places and they all seemed pretty normal to me. Sure, they both have a lot of wealthy families but in my experience they were as down to earth as anyone else.

[a2dal]

magny13 - I am curious about your comment. . .sending your daughter to Atlanta International for the early years, getting the full benefit of the cultural and language immersion, as well as the inquiry based IB primary years, and then seeing if she needs a more traditional environment in middle and high school seems like it could be a good option for you. That said, AIS is an excellent school . . . I've not run into people who left because it wasn't challenging enough, only the opposite. Of course, I am perhaps a little biased. . .my son will be going next year, and it is the only school we chose to apply to, after visiting all the biggies.

PS I did read your other post, and happen to agree with you on the value of investing in early education vs saving for college. Most people don't, though. I have gotten used to it.

[Gddyupn]

Originally Posted by MisterNY

What's more important to you? Education or hairstyle? Let your child decide, and deal with the rules of the school, he chooses. If basing your child's individuality on hairstyles, there are other issues if you ask me. I teach my kids that character, intelligence and philanthropy/generosity are more important than any hairstyle or brand name clothing. The irony would be him going to a school to escape cutting his hair, just to realize he could care less about the haircut a year later.

My question was not about his hair. The decision to cut his hair is up to my son and myself, so your opinion is not requested. I am merely asking for African American experiences at Westminster. If you don't have any, then you can't address my question. In addition, are you seriously saying that he won't get a quality education at Westminster? Surely you jest.

Originally Posted by MisterNY

Why is it unfair? It would only be unfair if they singled him out, but these are rules, and he must like every other child, black or white, abide by them. That's life. We must learn to live by the rules, and conform. People put too much emphasis on hairstyles and whatnot. I'm not talking about you specifically. I just think our generation is raising our kids to be narcissitic.

It is unfair because it affects people of color in a different way then folks who aren't of color. A non ethnic child can cut their hair and have it above the collar, but it is not a buzz cut. It can still reflect his personality and his own sense of style. He can copy Justin Bieber, or Brad Pitt, whoever he likes. But given the texture of most African American hair, the same options do not exist. They must have a buzz cut. We are not able to have Justin Bieber's haircut. If the rule was everyone have a buzz cut, I wouldn't mind.

Originally Posted by MisterNY

You have a point, but when they interviewed him, was he already accepted? I don't see anything unfair here. They interviewed him based on his grades, recommendations and scores as you stated. Once they accept him, he has to abide by the rules. JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER KIDS DID!!

Yes, he does, that's not my point. My point is those rules aren't on the website, nor any of the literature that we received, so we didn't know those rules existed. The uniform rule was made available, but for hair it just says above the collar. Well his hair is above the collar, so we didn't know. I feel it was incumbent upon them to let us know, so that we would have all facts available in the decision making process. Just as some folks decide against a school because they don't want to wear a uniform, then the hair rule may also affect some decisions. Especially when there are equally good and even better schools around that don't have the same policy.

Originally Posted by MisterNY

While you may be right about the policy, it seems to me that you're making more of an issue of it, than the school itself. My advice is: LET your son decide, and deal with the rules of whichever school he decides to attend.

He did decide. He decided on Westminster. However he's a child, and he isn't paying tuition, I am. So I need to be comfortable with the decision.

Originally Posted by MisterNY

Another thing, that caught my attention. You say, your child has been in private school all his life, he should be used to stringent rules. This should be nothing new. If the issue is not hair, it's something else. He should not make a stink of it. I've been in private school my entire life, and dealt with everything that was thrown at me. No prima donnas in my house!!

Apparently you aren't familiar with many private schools in Atlanta. Many don't have stringent rules, ours did not. There are schools that allow blue hair, and piercings. There are others that preach tolerance over academics. There are those that pride themselves on diversity. There are those that allow the kids to address teachers, parents, and the principal by their first name. Different schools have different rules, you have to find the best fit for you. That's not being a prima donna, that's real life. You aren't going to a college that doesn't fit your needs, you won't take a job that won't fit your needs, and you won't marry a person or make friends with folks that don't suit your personality. That's the wonderful thing about living in America - we have choices.

Originally Posted by MisterNY

To answer your question:

I'd chose the best one for me. It wouldn't be about hair and shaving heads, but a deep analysis of future growth, salary, and balance of family life.

That doesn't answer my question. I was very specific about my questions, and none of them involved whether or not folks thought I should cut my son's hair. That is a personal choice, and not up for debate. MY QUESTIONS were about African American experiences at Westminster. Are you African American and do you attend Westminster or have African American friends that attend Westminster? If not, then you cannot help me. I appreciate your insight, but it is not solicited.

[MisterNY]

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

My question was not about his hair. The decision to cut his hair is up to my son and myself, so your opinion is not requested. I am merely asking for African American experiences at Westminster. If you don't have any, then you can't address my question. In addition, are you seriously saying that he won't get a quality education at Westminster? Surely you jest.

Who cares at this point? What's their experience going to do for your son, if you already applied, and he got accepted? Let him have his own, and deal with it. Please, you must be living in some fantasy land. In life, there are people who have better experiences in public schools, some in private schools. Nothing is etched in stone, stating whether your child will get the best at Westminster. It's what he makes of it. If you didn't want him to be in the school, then you shouldn't have signed him up. Don't send a kid to a school without asking for information in advance, then come on a forum asking for AA experience later on. That should have been done before even applying to these schools if these things were so important to you.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

It is unfair because it affects people of color in a different way then folks who aren't of color. A non ethnic child can cut their hair and have it above the collar, but it is not a buzz cut. It can still reflect his personality and his own sense of style. He can copy Justin Bieber, or Brad Pitt, whoever he likes. But given the texture of most African American hair, the same options do not exist. They must have a buzz cut. We are not able to have Justin Bieber's haircut. If the rule was everyone have a buzz cut, I wouldn't mind.

It sounds to me that you're the one creating the crutch for your child. Seemingly moreso than he is. I'm part black (my father is half black/mom is white), my wife is black....so that makes my kids, what?? While 2 of my kids tend to be on the fair skin side, there is no mistake they are black. Try harder. While I'm not disagreeing with what you say, you seem to put more emphasis on it than many people. He's going to get an education there, not a haircut. While racism is alive, and still thriving in some circles, some people make issues of things that don't need importance, or attention. My twin boys get the haircut I give them, since they are young. They want to grow cornrows/dreads/jheri curls later on in life, and deal with others' ignorance, they'll have to deal with that. I'm not going to ask the world to adjust to their hairstyles. They'll need to adjust to the beat of the drum. They need to understand that the world will not stop for them. I have zero tolerance for narcisism. You seem like the opposite to me.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

Yes, he does, that's not my point. My point is those rules aren't on the website, nor any of the literature that we received, so we didn't know those rules existed. The uniform rule was made available, but for hair it just says above the collar. Well his hair is above the collar, so we didn't know. I feel it was incumbent upon them to let us know, so that we would have all facts available in the decision making process. Just as some folks decide against a school because they don't want to wear a uniform, then the hair rule may also affect some decisions. Especially when there are equally good and even better schools around that don't have the same policy.

Oh well. They told you now, so deal with it. It seems to be about his hair moreso than anything else. Again, you want him to go to one of these schools, deal with the experience. Your son's experience will differ from other AA students. Stop sheltering him. Let him deal with the world, and get a few lumps in the process. He's a boy. In no time, he'll be a man.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

He did decide. He decided on Westminster. However he's a child, and he isn't paying tuition, I am. So I need to be comfortable with the decision.

Good for him. And he needs to be comfortable with the decision moreso than you. He'll be attending, not you. Even if you pay, so what? That's your duty.

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

Apparently you aren't familiar with many private schools in Atlanta. Many don't have stringent rules, ours did not. There are schools that allow blue hair, and piercings. There are others that preach tolerance over academics. There are those that pride themselves on diversity. There are those that allow the kids to address teachers, parents, and the principal by their first name. Different schools have different rules, you have to find the best fit for you. That's not being a prima donna, that's real life. You aren't going to a college that doesn't fit your needs, you won't take a job that won't fit your needs, and you won't marry a person or make friends with folks that don't suit your personality. That's the wonderful thing about living in America - we have choices.

My kids go to a Catholic school in Atlanta (Cobb County). Again, your post backs up my earlier post stating that your child is, or should be used to rules. So, why are you here complaining, again? You know, even public schools have rules too??

Originally Posted by Gddyupn

That doesn't answer my question. I was very specific about my questions, and none of them involved whether or not folks thought I should cut my son's hair. That is a personal choice, and not up for debate. MY QUESTIONS were about African American experiences at Westminster. Are you African American and do you attend Westminster or have African American friends that attend Westminster? If not, then you cannot help me. I appreciate your insight, but it is not solicited.

Again, I answered your question. Read above. I don't need to attend Westminster to knock sense into you. I've been to private schools my entire life, and my kids are doing the same. Get it through your head that your son's experience will differ from other kids' experiences. You spent the time to sign him up, get him through interviews, got him accepted to both schools, and now you want to ask these questions. Waste of time. .

Btw, why on earth did you even mention the hair issue, had it not been the main issue from where I am standing? Your son will be fine. You need to get off his and the school's back. I could care less if you're offended to what I just said. Life will go on. I think I'm done with you. Peace.