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Either school will provide an excellent educational experience for your son, but it is very hard for me to believe that you are going to pay $22,000 per year for the next several years for an education for your child and the school's "hair policy" turns out to be the deciding factor.
College admissions, religious emphasis, test scores, community involvement.... there are many other features that differentiate private schools that are worthy of using as a "litmus test", but the hair policy???
I agree. With that kind of investiment, as a child, I would definitely have my hair cut because after all what will pay the bills once I graduate college? My hair? I would make my child understand that sometimes in life there are rules we must follow in order to be able to realize bigger and better things. Once I have my own business and am able to pay all my bills then let all the hair down.
Back on topic. I have nephews enrolled at Westminster. My nephews are black. There are no south areas representation, they live in Buckhead. Their parents are professional but as the poster above mentioned, they do not vacation in Europe, Caribbean twice a year and rub elbows with the rich and famous like the other kids' parents. They are not misearable, they have friends but understand their position as compared to the other kids who are have wealthy parents. They have been there since pre Elementary School. Their parents emphasize the quality of education they are providing their children as opposed to the amount of money everyone else has and social status. I asked their mother and she told me she has not seen any boys with long hair except one boy with a short mullet. She said maybe the longest part of his hair was a bit above his shoulders. Hope this helps.
I don't have direct elite private school experiences, just second hand info, but I will tell you, the commuting farther to Buckhead vs. College Park will make a difference over time from where you currently live.
It will make some difference, but not as much as you might think. We have lived on the south side since my kids were born, but both currently attend a private elementary school in Midtown. Our commute is 45 minutes from our home every day. 90% of the children in the school live within a 10 mile radius, so every playdate involves having to trek into Midtown, but we've been doing that for 7 years, so it's not that much of a problem for us. I just thought it would be easier to make friends in a new school, if you lived closer to your classmates. It might contribute to more time spent together after school, but it's not a deal breaker given our current experience.
Plus I still have a 1st grader in the Midtown school, so I'll be coming intown every day anyway to drop her off.
I would check with Westminster about the hair. My husband jokes that you can tell a public school middle school boy from a private school middle school boy by the length of the hair and style of the cut.
I have checked. Their policy is only that the hair be neat and clean, and not free flowing. It must be contrained. Which means his current style is perfectly acceptable to them, according to admissions staff (who saw him when they interviewed him).
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Originally Posted by lastminutemom
Here is the deal with being middle class. It could be an issue at either school. If you and your son are bothered by what others have and do, then it is going to be hard. Expensive vacations, summer programs, access to the best private tutors and coaches will all be some of the opportunities that many of the students will have. That is something that only your family can decide about.
I currently have two children in the private school sector, where we've been for 7 years now. So I am familiar with gadgets that go along with higher economic levels. And to be honest, we go on the expensive vacations, and participate in the expensive summer programs, so that's not a problem for us. I guess I was mostly referring to the fact that we have a nice home, but certainly not a multi-million dollar mansion. We drive nice cars, but not Maserati's and Porche's. In addition, some of the trappings of wealth my child will not have simply because I don't believe he needs them. We don't spoil our child to the extent that some of the more premissive parents do. But he's accustomed to that from his 7 years in private school, sometimes with braggarts and show offs.
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Originally Posted by lastminutemom
As parents who has had children in public and private, we have always been pretty down to earth. So, when our private school son would mention what some had and he didn't, we would just shrug our shoulders and say oh well. Or tell him to get a job. He had a good life, better than most, and so it was hard for him to feel sorry for himself. He just loved gadgets (still does).
We've never had a child in public school, but other than that, we are just like you!
And there may be families that aren't "rich" that go there, but those families are likely on scholarship/financial aid. It's hard to drop that much $ for tuition and not be at least somewhat well-to-do. .
The problem is I'm looking for actual experiences, not assumptions. Yes, there are certainly some kids who are there in financial aid, but most private schools don't provide a full ride, so they would be making some contribution. In addition, most private schools do not offer financial aid for students who are new. Financial aid isn't given out until you've attended the school (and paid) for at least one year. These are facts I know from being in the private school sector and having friends who've served on the board. So this makes me feel like your comments aren't based in fact, but merely your opinion, which may or may not stem from real observations.
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Originally Posted by BringBackCobain
What I would be more worried about is the tendency for teenagers to try and keep up with friends who have no concept of money and are extremely spoiled by their parents. No-limit credit cards. Spring break trips always to an exclusive island in the Caribbean. Brand new car when you turn 16, Tahoe for the guys and BMW for the girls. Multiple country club memberships, house at Sea Island and Burton, etc. No job in the summer (because you have to go on Western Tour, of course!). Westminster definitely has more of these types of kids than any other private school.
That doesn't concern me because my kid knows that even if we won a $300 million lottery, it wouldn't matter. I will not simply hand him things he hasn't earned. He'll know that he doesn't have some of the things they do have because his parents won't allow it, not because we can't afford it. And for the things we can't afford, then perhaps that will motivate him to work harder when he grows up, so he can afford them on his own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain
What do you mean by long hair? As in dread-locks? I can't see that flying at Westminster. Nor could I see Westminster's hair policy being much different than Woodward. I'm pretty sure it's standard across the board for all private schools that guys' hair can't be longer than the ears, collar, or eyebrows.
He wears his hair cornrowed, not dreadlocked. It falls to the collar. Westminster's hair policy is different from Woodward's, I checked. It's not standard across the board for all private schools, because he currently attends a private school, and it's not a problem there. It also isn't a problem for Paideia, Galloway, Heiskell, Landmark, and a few others I checked with.
The problem I believe is that since Woodward has historical military ties, then they have a rule on their books that dates back to their inception. It may or may not be relevant to them now, but that's their stance.
I am not asking them to change their stance. Do I find it antiquated? Yes. Do I think it unfair? Yes. They interviewed this child and he had long hair when they interviewed him. No one mentioned a word. They accepted him, based on his grades, teacher recommendations, and SSAT scores, all with this same long hair, and no one said a word. So obviously his hair doesn't impede his ability to learn, but it does violate their dress code. Fine, but I do feel that someone should have mentioned it to us at some point during the intensive application process. We happened to hear it ancedotely from friends, and I called to check. Otherwise, we might have paid the full tuition, and then shown up on the first day of school, completely unaware of the problem. Only to be told, $22K later, cut his hair or leave? That's not fair to me.
Also, very few at the school are even aware of the policy, I had to be transferred several times before they could find someone who knew for certain. That seems to scream to me that this isn't a policy that's overly important to them in 2011.
Either school will provide an excellent educational experience for your son, but it is very hard for me to believe that you are going to pay $22,000 per year for the next several years for an education for your child and the school's "hair policy" turns out to be the deciding factor.
College admissions, religious emphasis, test scores, community involvement.... there are many other features that differentiate private schools that are worthy of using as a "litmus test", but the hair policy???
It is the deciding factor because otherwise the schools are evenly matched for us. They both have excellent college admissions and test scores. The religious emphasis at Westminster isn't overbearing to us or a problem. The lack of religious emphasis at Woodward isn't a problem either.
Of course there are differences in the schools - one wears a uniform, the other doesn't. One is 18% African American, the other is only 9%. One has an electron microscope, the other doesn't.
The truth is, we are not making a decision willy nilly. Let's assume that I've given this deep thought beyond what I've posted on here. But since it seems I need to, let me clarify my reasoning. I think my kid could thrive at either school.
He's very smart and very competitive, so I think the "pressure cooker" that is Westminster will work well for him. He's very sweet and polite and respectful, which fits in well with all of the children and parents we've met at the school. Also, the headmaster of his current school confirms that this is a mindset at Westminster, and that she thinks the school, along with Woodward, would be the best fit for him, of all the metro area private schools.
He is also very athletic, loves to watch football and loves to play baseball and basketball. In those three areas, Woodward is more competitive, and would serve him better. Also, we are a Woodward legacy.
So we've got two schools, both excellent academic opportunities (though admittedly Westminster moreso than Woodward), both with strong athletic programs (though admittedly Woodward moreso than Westminster), both with good test scores, college placement rates, both costing the same - so at this point, the deciding factor would have to be which one is the better personality fit for my child. And if he doesn't want to cut his hair, and Woodward says he has to, then Woodward wouldn't be the best fit, would it?
If you had two jobs available to you, both pay the same, both offer the same opportunity for advancement - but to get one you'd have to shave your head and facial hair, and the other you merely had to present a neat and professional appearance - which one would you choose? But it would be a choice, right? And no one would castigate you for it, right?
I agree. With that kind of investiment, as a child, I would definitely have my hair cut because after all what will pay the bills once I graduate college? My hair? I would make my child understand that sometimes in life there are rules we must follow in order to be able to realize bigger and better things. Once I have my own business and am able to pay all my bills then let all the hair down.
I hardly think that graduating with a Westminster education will not allow him to get into college and graduate. It's not like I'm saying that since we don't want to cut his hair that he'll have to go to virtual school. No, I'm saying that by not cutting his hair he'll have to enroll in the #1 school in the southeast US. Oh, bummer for him???
He does understand rules, and that they have to be followed. He is a rule follower to the extreme, sometimes I feel to his detriment. But this isn't a rule. This is a decision by one private school that others don't have. I would never teach him to avoid doing something that is US law by moving to Canada. But I do teach him that we have choices in life, and choices have consequences. If he CHOOSES not to cut his hair, then the consequence is that he'll have to go to Westminster, where he will learn, but not in the diverse atmosphere that he would enjoy at Woodward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alinka72
Back on topic. I have nephews enrolled at Westminster. My nephews are black. There are no south areas representation, they live in Buckhead. Their parents are professional but as the poster above mentioned, they do not vacation in Europe, Caribbean twice a year and rub elbows with the rich and famous like the other kids' parents. They are not misearable, they have friends but understand their position as compared to the other kids who are have wealthy parents. They have been there since pre Elementary School. Their parents emphasize the quality of education they are providing their children as opposed to the amount of money everyone else has and social status. I asked their mother and she told me she has not seen any boys with long hair except one boy with a short mullet. She said maybe the longest part of his hair was a bit above his shoulders. Hope this helps.
Thank you, this does help. And I've checked with Westminster, my child's hair is not a problem for them.
It isn't a marriage, it is a much easier decision to undo. If Westminster turns out not to be a good fit, then apply to Woodward for high school or even sooner. Kids come and go from private schools for 9th grade fairly frequently.
Where are his friends going? (Presuming you aren't at Paideia and most are staying?)
I think this would be a factor as well for me.
The bulk of his friends are all going to Paideia, which was not an option for us. The style of learning doesn't suit my son, and they also don't have a strong athletic program. Other than that he has a few friends going to Westminster, and several classmates (that I wouldn't call friends, but he does know them) going to Woodward.
So for the most part, he'll be starting from scratch, making new friends at either school.
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