Star Valley, Wyoming --Questions

[quote=nancy fennern;24299435]I was born and raised in Star Valley. I was also raised a Mormon. I remember the book "The Saints of Snowville" and believe it was written by a friend of mine's father. I also believe it was written about the saints of Star Valley. It always seemed hush hush.[/quote]

I know this is a recent post, based on much older posts I'm responding to, of the same title. I think the author of the book referred to, who was named earlier may be correct, per my parents. They think Pilar Rich was more of a pen name for the Judge mentioned in a previous post, but the last posting did not give a name, so can't verify that. I don't know if the person who claimed to be the writer in an earlier post really is so. I agree he may be trying to pull someone's leg.


I was in Star Valley when I was young, and my parents and I ran across these posts recently. I couldn't help but reply to them, as the topics brought to mind a lot of different interests and memories.

Mom said the snow does sometimes melt fast and it reminded her of an old Indian proverb "Big snow, little snow; Little snow, big snow. The "Big snow" would often happen in the summer time. And it would really be a little snow. You'd get a cold wind current and precipitation blowing in from the north, perhaps out of up Canada way, and you could get HUGE, very light snow flakes which would stack very light powder several inches deep in minutes, but then the sun would come out and it would melt very quickly, because it really wasn't that much precipitated H2O involved (thus Big snow, little snow). On the other hand you could get a snow with small, very wet, sticky flakes that would pack heavy, take awhile to accumulate and then stay for weeks or months, that was generally in the winter (Little snow, big snow). And you could have any number of combinations. We moved a trailer into the valley in June, I believe, because my dad, a Baptist minister, couldn't find anyone who would rent him a place to stay (noting the LDS influence). I think it was June 1st many years ago. The trailer had a slide out portion which had a fold up base for moving. It started to snow just as they were setting up the trailer. They got the fold-up base down, but before they had time to push out the slide-out section, there were 5 or 6 inches of light powder collected on the base. They had to brush it off to finish setting up. If you drove in that snow, there wasn't any trouble doing so, as it wouldn't pack in front of the cars, because it wasn't dense. The tires as they rolled over would squash it down to probably less than 1/2 an inch. And it melted away quickly because the wind blew in the storm suddenly, but the ground would still be warm. It mostly resulted in annoying slush that made the cars filthy.


I remember the weather could change very quickly without warning out west. I don't think this happened in Star Valley but is a good illustration. Dad told a story about someone who had a trailer and were away from it when an unusual cold wind come through and froze all the pipes. They stayed frozen for a few days until a "Chinook" (warming) breeze came through. The burst pipes then leaked everywhere. The trailers tend to be more tightly put together, well sealed doors, etc. out west due to the extreme cold weather, and the trailer undoubtedly would have been leaking, but not enough to avoid it beginning to fill with water. The Chinook wind dissipated and the water in the trailer froze before it had opportunity to all leak out. The expansion of the freezing water pushed out the sides of the trailer and completely destroyed it (as if it wasn't far gone already). Needless to say if you can get 45 degree below weather (which I don't recall being that often, but possible) you had to be prepared to take precautions. That would mean leaving the water running through the pipes into the sink, or with a good strong drip. Even with insulation that could be necessary. I recall all the vehicles having engine warmers that would have to be plugged in on the coldest nights or your engine block would freeze. My father has been an outdoors person, and even in Texas experienced, when out in a canoe, a "blue northerner"; a fast cold air that would come in quick on a warm day, and could freeze a stream suddenly. You could almost watch the frost build in minutes like a rain and rain cloud approaching you being pushed by the wind across a meadow while, at least for the moment, you're still standing in the sun.


I now live in the south. Funny how all those things which were commonplace there do not exist here. While I don't live in one, I know trailers aren't built near as well. And I don't recall seeing any cars with electric plugs for heaters, even though we do get an occasional freeze. I've not experienced any dramatic changes from Chinook winds or blue northerners.


Getting back to the LDS (Latter-Day Saints otherwise known as Mormon) influence; in Star Valley, we knew folks who lost their jobs; suddenly became "incompetent" after years of great work, when they became involved with a non-LDS church, found their best breeding steer dead for no apparent reason, or who never came back to the non-LDS church after conversations with Mormons, likely inferring they could lose their jobs, with jobs scarce. There were others who lived off the land or had external income sources, and were not so influenced. There were a lot of folks not so bigoted (I'm exaggerating by using that term, true of some, but unfair of many) against non-LDS-ers. Most folks were downright nice. But there was a negative undercurrent from some and an economic influence. That was a number of years ago, and hopefully less of an issue today. But I wouldn't know. It was a beautiful place to live, and I enjoyed it. But... I don't have to worry about having the snow plowed where I live now, to go to work every morning, so I'm not jumping at the chance to move back. Also not sure how available jobs would be to outsiders. Love to have a second home in the area, or up in Jackson some day. Even more so, I'd love to visit again in the not-too-distant future.


There was another story about the non-LDS church we were involved with. Star Valley was a couple miles or so wide, and only a dozen or so miles long. Yet it had. if I recollect correctly, 13 Mormon churches there. At one point the church we attended, which was the only non-LDS church with any significantly notable building in the valley, had been built and a bell had been purchased for it. A (small) steeple / bell tower would be put up during the day, and then it would be torn down by undoubtedly certain of the more zealous LDS community men at night. The folks of the church persisted and at some point the bell tower managed to stay. Rumor was that the LDS elders of the community then or at some later point held a meeting to determine whether they would allow the bell of a church that was not theirs to be rung, even though there were LDS churches which had bells that were rung. Of course when my father heard that, he made sure the bell was rung every time there was a possible excuse. Practically, though, that was generally just for routine services with an occasional few days "revival meetings" here and there.


If you get up to Star Valley, you might enjoy a trip up to an old graveyard above Afton. There are a couple graves of special note. One which has "Father" in the middle with four mothers, two on each side of father. But even more interesting is the grave with "Father" and "Mother", and buried in between father and mother a gravestone that reads "Auntie". I presume the graves would still be there. We used to take friends who visited us up to the graveyard for a lark, noting the polygamous influence.


"Freedom" is a town in the valley on the Wyoming and Utah border. The story is that freedom is named such, as it provided opportunity for Mormons to practice polygamy less disturbed. Polygamists could have two houses; one on one side of the street in Wyoming, and one on the other side in Utah. When the Wyoming law would come in, the "Fathers" would move in with their Utah wives to avoid arrest, and vice versa. A lot of interesting Mormon history and influence there.


I read recently where 1 million to 1.5 million folks have left the Mormon church in recent years as they have now been able to access information about that church's real history. We had conversation about this and revisited facts my dad and mom were aware of in dealing with their own congregation and Mormon teachers.


One woman who escaped polygamy revealed that the women were taught that non-Mormons were very anti-Mormon and would kill them. So this made the women just as afraid to run as to stay. Of course this was not at all true, even in the old west. It seems there were lies perpetuated to keep people in the dark and in check under Mormon influence. Unfortunately, that still happens today, both in the US and in various other parts of the world.


With the advent of the internet more information is available. i just recently had a conversation with a young Mormon missionary who came to my door. He asked where I got information as I was pointing out flaws in his doctrine based on scriptures quoted out of the Bible. I mentioned various sources where he could get this information including that you could get the information off the internet, so he could research these matters on his own. He immediately went into some rampage about how the internet was clearly of the devil and oh, no wonder I didn't see things as he did, like I was being brainwashed by the internet. I very clearly noted that the internet was not where my training and knowledge came from; however, the information was available there; that the internet was like many tools which man can choose to use either positively or negatively, but it also carried the ability to research and make your own decisions as to what was truthful and not, and I was open to debate him on any points of his religion and was not "afraid" of either his church teachings or the internet. It was quite clear rather than having been taught sufficient information to defend his faith, and discern between truth and lies from all sources, including individuals and the internet, he has been brainwashed to not think through any arguments which would question what he had been taught. I see this as a typical past Mormon church tactic, and to see it in action in 2012 is rather disturbing. This points back to the druids and witchdoctors not wanting anyone to become educated because education was power over superstition and therefore over their incorrect influence; or exposed to real physicians or other knowledge in a real world, and their attempt to insure no one would have power to overcome superstition through independent thought and discernment based on real evidence. I am not a perfect person, but am a Christian saved by the grace of God, and not reliant on the teachings of any "church" who tells its converts that they can't listen to and debate with anyone else outside the church for fear they will not be able to think for themselves when it comes to religious matters, or in so doing will be lost from the "church". Rather I have been involved with teachers who have taught and encouraged additional independent research and "searching" the scriptures. I realize the internet levels the playing field in many ways; not only economic but in the ability to do your own research and verify what you are taught against other sources.


I remember debating issues of Mormon doctrine versus the Bible, the real scripture, with a young Mormon teen when I was also a teen. He kept saying how his bishop said that he should not be listening to anyone who had anything to say against the LDS church teachings. On the contrary, my father as a Christian, independent of some church, welcomed such discussion and debate as clarifying what was right. I challenged the teen to have his bishop meet with my father to discuss these matters so he could discern for himself what was right. It was obvious he had been brainwashed he could not possibly think for himself. Needless to say we were never taken up on the challenge. There was generally too much fear and upset when folks would have to face the fact they could be wrong and did not have sufficient grounding to properly debate alternatives to their own beliefs, and their belief systems could be shattered. But most importantly, the youth were taught they could not be given sufficient principles to discern effectively for themselves. And unfortunately, they believed it. I, fortunately, was not taught that way, and searching, researching and debating has alternatively encouraged and solidified my faith. As scripture says, we are to study the scriptures and become wise as serpents and harmless as doves. And scripture also warns us there are many who come in to disrupt the real church of Jesus Christ; which is not the Mormon church. Rather the Mormon church, particularly those telling folks they can't discern for themselves through searching the Bible's own scriptures, is those "wolves" in sheeps' clothing, which turn away to false doctrines. Except that it is not so violent, this is no different than when prior to the reformation the catholic church was against people having scripture in their own language. There is little difference. The leaders of the church wanted to tell people what to do without the people having any basis for validating whether what they were being taught had a basis in truth or not. This led to such practices as the ability to "buy" in advance forgiveness of sin so you could go out and sin (theoretically, based on the false teaching) with no repercussions for your wrong. This was done by corrupt church leaders just to raise more money and create more power for themselves. With the translation of the scriptures into the common language coupled with folks speaking out against it, and people able to do their own research as to what scripture taught, this and other wrong practices ceased. The LDS influence is no different than the religious institutions in Christ's day which could not swallow Christ's healing on Sunday for overemphasizing the "rule" of not working on Sunday, rather than understanding the "principle" of doing God's will which is "generally" doing what honors God on Sunday. There are far too many rules that have been created in the Mormon church which are not supported by the true scriptures (the Bible). If you haven't had opportunity to see how questioning has gotten people in trouble with the Mormon church, no different than a native questioning their witchdoctor, or when "heretics" questioned the Catholic church and ended up burned at the stake, take the opportunity to peruse Amazon for the book "Mormonism: A Life Under False Pretenses." The comparison is somewhat overly dramatic for today, but not that far off base historically.


Perhaps this discussion of church history and how it is not dissimilar from some of the happenings in the Mormon church has brought about some clarity for those who may wonder about the influences and continuing changes in the view of the Mormon religion by its own folks who periodically leave the church, as well as those who are more familiar with its history. This discussion may be even more relevant considering we have a candidate, Mitt Romney, running for president, who is a Mormon. Let me just say, Mormons are generally very good, morale, principled people, with solid character; and as such I respect them. And I believe they can make good leaders so long as they do not let their religious differences get in the way of individual freedom. Perhaps this discussion will help continue to "liberate" Star Valley, perhaps Utah, and other areas possibly too influenced by old, incorrect LDS views and beliefs. Religion is bondage. True Christianity is freedom. There is a difference.


Okay, so I've probably been rambling too much and will end now. Hope someone finds this interesting, if nothing else.