Quran Itself is a 'Command'
[quote=Continuum;41146420]refer[/quote]
We have gone through the 'command' issue many times. I am not assuming but it is a fact that the Quran itself is a command or in other words, duty, law, mandate, order, regulation, rule, obligation, must be followed, etc. that are closely synonymous to 'command.' 30% [appx.] of the Quran are eschatological doctrines which must be followed and another 30% [appx] are Biblical stories to support these doctrines which must be followed without exceptions thus such is equivalent to commands, imperatives, duty, rule, laws.
If you understand the general meaning of 'command' you will note the whole of Quran itself represent a "command" in one general sense to a Muslim.
[URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/command?s=t"]Command | Define Command at Dictionary.com[/URL]
[INDENT][B]6:153[/B]. And (He commandeth you, saying) : This is [B]My straight path[/B], [B]so follow it[/B], Follow not other ways [infidels'], lest ye be parted from His way: This hath He [B]ordained[/B] for you, that ye may ward off (evil).
[/INDENT]Pickthall put 'commandeth' in parenthesis but the verse itself meant the whole of the Quran [the Straight Path] must be followed without exception as said [commanded[ by Allah.
There are many verses that exhort believer to obey Allah and obey the Prophet. What else do they have to obey [arising from a general command] other than the Quran as a whole.
As for the verses themselves, there are many that are 'command' as a direct 'order' to follow specific orders. I am aware there are many. To be objective I will make and attempt to count them.
So don't bring up this 'assumption Quran is a book of command' again. This is a command [joke]. :rolleyes: :D
Nah, what the Quran claimed is there is an original Quran [still with God] and was revealed orally to past prophets but it is not represented by the corrupted written Torah and Gospel that is present today. What is revealed by Muhammad is in accordance to the original pristine 'Quran.' This is why Islam never relied on the written Torah used by the Jews and the Gospel used by the Christians.
The truth is God is an impossibility and there was no God given Quran at all. What happened was Muhammad plagiarized the stories from Torah and Gospel to compile the Quran as it is.
[quote=Woodrow LI;41146852]Refer to this link
[/quote]
The Qur'an is a revelation of why to perform Islam.[/quote]The above is not a precise description of 'what is The Quran' according to what is stated in The Quran.
[INDENT]1. The Quran is a revelation and reminder to mankind to avoid the threats of not believing in Allah and the attaining of PEACE if one believe.
2. If one believe in Allah, then one will have a passport to paradise to earn the corresponding rewards.
3. If one do not believe in Allah upon being reminded, then one will be sent to Hell to suffer eternal torments.
4. To believe in Allah one will enter into a [B]covenant [/B][spiritual contract] with Allah.
5. The terms & all conditions of the spiritual contract [covenant] is completely in The Quran.
6. [B]The default of any contract is one must fulfill/comply all the terms and conditions in the contract, i.e. The Quran[/B].
7. The conditions of the contract will include definition of terms, doctrines, principles, instructions, commands, examples, etc.
[/INDENT]The above points covers all critical elements to define what is the Quran, what is Islam, describe God, the messenger, and who is a Muslim.
What you do think is missing?
[quote] As I said and you quoted me saying;
I did not say there were no commands in the Qur'an. I indicated most of the Qur'an is not commands.
the full quote os what I said reads as: [/quote]I noted you mentioned the Quran do contain VERY LITTLE 'commands,' that is not an issue.
You mentioned my earlier propositions were based on the overall assumption;
1. The Quran is a book of commands
The above imply you do not agree with my assumptions [perceived] then what you hold is;
Primarily, [B]The Quran is NOT a book of commands[/B]
with a qualification 'but it do contain a few commands.'
I think it is waste of time arguing this point whether the Quran is a book of commands, contain little command or has no commands.
The most efficient description of the Quran is what I proposed is the narration 1 to 7 above.
Point 7 above assert there are commands in the Quran. We can easily count the number of actual "commands" [depending on an agreed definition] in the Quran.
Until we do the count, it is pointless to argue whether the Quran is book of commands or not.
[quote] In Surah 5 ayyats 1-12 you have the commands of what is required to be a Muslim. These are what we are to do to the best of our ability.
Not one of them is directing us to hate Jews or Christians. Not one of them is commanding us to harm others, not one of them is forbidding us to have non-Muslims as friends.
Learning how to do those 12 ayyat (The Commands) is found in Previous Scripture, Ahadith, Sunnah and Sira. Summed up in Islamic Jurisprudence the madhabs
In Surah 5 Ayyats 1-12 give a very general outline of what is required to perform Islam. But those 12 ayyat do outline how to be a Muslim particulary in regards to performing Hajj
The commands of how to do so are found in previous Scripture, Ahadith, Sunnah and Sira as I mentioned above[/quote]Your twisting of the term 'commands' here is rhetorical and deceiving.
As I said above we need to agree on what we meant by "command" first.
The critical point here as in any contract, spiritual or otherwise, is with 6 above, i.e.
6. [B]The default of any contract is one must fulfill/comply all the terms and conditions in The Quran[/B].
This is a default and there is no room to argue about it regarding making a contract.
Partial compliance will result on partial rewards and punishments.
In compliance totally with the Quran and its principles, it is inevitable Muslims would have to show contempt to non-believers. Such condition is all over the Quran expressed in various degrees.
[quote]The commands of how to do so are found in previous Scripture, Ahadith, Sunnah
and Sira as I mentioned above.[/quote]If whatever is in the Scripture, Ahadith, Sunnah
and Sira comply with point 6, i.e. terms within the Quran, then it is acceptable to Allah, otherwise it has no validity to the spiritual contract.
Example: If the Hadiths recommended the punishment of stoning to death for adultery, it is not Quran compliant as it is not stated in the Quran at all. The same applies to all other terms.
There is no mentioned of Bukhari or any of the hadiths collectors nor was authority [as stipulated in the Quran] given to them by Allah to process and finalize what should be the Hadiths. In fact the Quran warned of such possible subsequent expositions that will divide Muslims.
There is also no mentioned of dividing Muslims into separate or guided by different Madhabs. Again warning has been given in the Quran against dividing Muslims into sects.
Btw I am not supporting the Quran Only faction. I agree the other texts are useful as guides but whatever is final must comply with what is stipulated in the Quran, the so claimed final perfected and complete revelations.
[INDENT][B]3:7[/B]. He [Allah] it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations. They are the substance of the Book, and others (which are) allegorical.
But those [whoever] in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension [B]by seeking to explain it[/B]. None knoweth its [allegories'] explanation save Allah. And those [Muslims] who are of sound instruction say: [B]We [Muslims] believe therein; the whole is from our Lord[/B]; but only men of understanding really heed.
[B]77:50[/B]. In what statement, [B]after this[/B] [Quran], will they believe?
[B]45:6[/B]. These are the portents of Allah which We recite unto thee (Muhammad) with truth. Then in what fact, [B]after Allah and His portents[/B], will they believe?
[/INDENT]
We have gone through the 'command' issue many times. I am not assuming but it is a fact that the Quran itself is a command or in other words, duty, law, mandate, order, regulation, rule, obligation, must be followed, etc. that are closely synonymous to 'command.' 30% [appx.] of the Quran are eschatological doctrines which must be followed and another 30% [appx] are Biblical stories to support these doctrines which must be followed without exceptions thus such is equivalent to commands, imperatives, duty, rule, laws.
If you understand the general meaning of 'command' you will note the whole of Quran itself represent a "command" in one general sense to a Muslim.
[URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/command?s=t"]Command | Define Command at Dictionary.com[/URL]
[INDENT][B]6:153[/B]. And (He commandeth you, saying) : This is [B]My straight path[/B], [B]so follow it[/B], Follow not other ways [infidels'], lest ye be parted from His way: This hath He [B]ordained[/B] for you, that ye may ward off (evil).
[/INDENT]Pickthall put 'commandeth' in parenthesis but the verse itself meant the whole of the Quran [the Straight Path] must be followed without exception as said [commanded[ by Allah.
There are many verses that exhort believer to obey Allah and obey the Prophet. What else do they have to obey [arising from a general command] other than the Quran as a whole.
As for the verses themselves, there are many that are 'command' as a direct 'order' to follow specific orders. I am aware there are many. To be objective I will make and attempt to count them.
So don't bring up this 'assumption Quran is a book of command' again. This is a command [joke]. :rolleyes: :D
Nah, what the Quran claimed is there is an original Quran [still with God] and was revealed orally to past prophets but it is not represented by the corrupted written Torah and Gospel that is present today. What is revealed by Muhammad is in accordance to the original pristine 'Quran.' This is why Islam never relied on the written Torah used by the Jews and the Gospel used by the Christians.
The truth is God is an impossibility and there was no God given Quran at all. What happened was Muhammad plagiarized the stories from Torah and Gospel to compile the Quran as it is.
[quote=Woodrow LI;41146852]Refer to this link
[/quote]
The Qur'an is a revelation of why to perform Islam.[/quote]The above is not a precise description of 'what is The Quran' according to what is stated in The Quran.
[INDENT]1. The Quran is a revelation and reminder to mankind to avoid the threats of not believing in Allah and the attaining of PEACE if one believe.
2. If one believe in Allah, then one will have a passport to paradise to earn the corresponding rewards.
3. If one do not believe in Allah upon being reminded, then one will be sent to Hell to suffer eternal torments.
4. To believe in Allah one will enter into a [B]covenant [/B][spiritual contract] with Allah.
5. The terms & all conditions of the spiritual contract [covenant] is completely in The Quran.
6. [B]The default of any contract is one must fulfill/comply all the terms and conditions in the contract, i.e. The Quran[/B].
7. The conditions of the contract will include definition of terms, doctrines, principles, instructions, commands, examples, etc.
[/INDENT]The above points covers all critical elements to define what is the Quran, what is Islam, describe God, the messenger, and who is a Muslim.
What you do think is missing?
[quote] As I said and you quoted me saying;
I did not say there were no commands in the Qur'an. I indicated most of the Qur'an is not commands.
the full quote os what I said reads as: [/quote]I noted you mentioned the Quran do contain VERY LITTLE 'commands,' that is not an issue.
You mentioned my earlier propositions were based on the overall assumption;
1. The Quran is a book of commands
The above imply you do not agree with my assumptions [perceived] then what you hold is;
Primarily, [B]The Quran is NOT a book of commands[/B]
with a qualification 'but it do contain a few commands.'
I think it is waste of time arguing this point whether the Quran is a book of commands, contain little command or has no commands.
The most efficient description of the Quran is what I proposed is the narration 1 to 7 above.
Point 7 above assert there are commands in the Quran. We can easily count the number of actual "commands" [depending on an agreed definition] in the Quran.
Until we do the count, it is pointless to argue whether the Quran is book of commands or not.
[quote] In Surah 5 ayyats 1-12 you have the commands of what is required to be a Muslim. These are what we are to do to the best of our ability.
Not one of them is directing us to hate Jews or Christians. Not one of them is commanding us to harm others, not one of them is forbidding us to have non-Muslims as friends.
Learning how to do those 12 ayyat (The Commands) is found in Previous Scripture, Ahadith, Sunnah and Sira. Summed up in Islamic Jurisprudence the madhabs
In Surah 5 Ayyats 1-12 give a very general outline of what is required to perform Islam. But those 12 ayyat do outline how to be a Muslim particulary in regards to performing Hajj
The commands of how to do so are found in previous Scripture, Ahadith, Sunnah and Sira as I mentioned above[/quote]Your twisting of the term 'commands' here is rhetorical and deceiving.
As I said above we need to agree on what we meant by "command" first.
The critical point here as in any contract, spiritual or otherwise, is with 6 above, i.e.
6. [B]The default of any contract is one must fulfill/comply all the terms and conditions in The Quran[/B].
This is a default and there is no room to argue about it regarding making a contract.
Partial compliance will result on partial rewards and punishments.
In compliance totally with the Quran and its principles, it is inevitable Muslims would have to show contempt to non-believers. Such condition is all over the Quran expressed in various degrees.
[quote]The commands of how to do so are found in previous Scripture, Ahadith, Sunnah
and Sira as I mentioned above.[/quote]If whatever is in the Scripture, Ahadith, Sunnah
and Sira comply with point 6, i.e. terms within the Quran, then it is acceptable to Allah, otherwise it has no validity to the spiritual contract.
Example: If the Hadiths recommended the punishment of stoning to death for adultery, it is not Quran compliant as it is not stated in the Quran at all. The same applies to all other terms.
There is no mentioned of Bukhari or any of the hadiths collectors nor was authority [as stipulated in the Quran] given to them by Allah to process and finalize what should be the Hadiths. In fact the Quran warned of such possible subsequent expositions that will divide Muslims.
There is also no mentioned of dividing Muslims into separate or guided by different Madhabs. Again warning has been given in the Quran against dividing Muslims into sects.
Btw I am not supporting the Quran Only faction. I agree the other texts are useful as guides but whatever is final must comply with what is stipulated in the Quran, the so claimed final perfected and complete revelations.
[INDENT][B]3:7[/B]. He [Allah] it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations. They are the substance of the Book, and others (which are) allegorical.
But those [whoever] in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension [B]by seeking to explain it[/B]. None knoweth its [allegories'] explanation save Allah. And those [Muslims] who are of sound instruction say: [B]We [Muslims] believe therein; the whole is from our Lord[/B]; but only men of understanding really heed.
[B]77:50[/B]. In what statement, [B]after this[/B] [Quran], will they believe?
[B]45:6[/B]. These are the portents of Allah which We recite unto thee (Muhammad) with truth. Then in what fact, [B]after Allah and His portents[/B], will they believe?
[/INDENT]
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