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Taiwan and S Korea are not American vassals, they democratized on their own. Both of them were right wing dictatorships until the 1980s. The idea that separating the judicial system from the executive branch, allowing free and open elections is becoming a US vassal state is ridiculous propaganda these authoritarian regimes feed to their own populations. The US has bases around the world, but their main bases outside of the US are in Japan and Germany. What historical event in the 1940s do you think caused that? The US sending boats through the Taiwan strait is not encircling China. The PRC and the ROC have an international border through the Taiwan strait. If the government in Taipei allows American boats to use their waters, it is entirely up to them. The American presence in Eastern Europe has effectively deterred Russia from commuting its goal of invading and annexing the Baltics. The world is safer because of these American bases.
Chinese leaders sound incredibly cooperative and friendly in little quotes at meetings and conferences. Meanwhile their diplomats give childish threats to the West over social media and Xi himself has threatened to “bash the heads in” of any country that takes issue with China exerting itself as a military superpower. In the short term Russia is more offensive, I agree, but in the long term China has expansionist goals in the South China Sea and Taiwan that it considers “core interests”. They can be a dictatorship all they want, only an idiot would suggest a regime change invasion over that. They are still threatening the stability of the entire planet as long as they intend to pursue those “core interest” goals.
I hope you didn't realise you just called the entire US neocon establishment "idiots" LOL
The US is a capitalist society. Do you think America is willing to spend hundreds of billions each year on its global empire of military bases, only to "do good" around the world? Such benign intentions, to protect other all other countries at its own expense?
That's the pretense. But to think those military bases are charity? Capitalist America spends money because they have an agenda, and they spend because they think it has a return on its interest. US military bases exist primarily to project US military influence around the globe.
Those military bases are there first and foremost to protect US foreign interests. I don't think they helped prevent the US from invading and intervening other countries over 70 times in the last 80 years. Those bases partly helped to facilitate that.
If I was China, then having all those military bases around me from a foreign power that's antagonising and demonising me would indeed be threatening.
It wasn't the choice of the Japanese people to have US military bases on its soil like Okinawa. But of course when USA does it it's justified "freedom of choice", but if China does the same then it's expansionism. American Exceptionalism.
Perhaps China should make a military alliance with Mexico and sail a few of its warships off the coast of California every month or 2 and see how the US will respond. Oh no need actually, we've already seen that US response when the Soviets placed missiles in Cuba in 1962. And the US is one unforgiving guy. Cuba's still suffering from US sanctions to this day.
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Meanwhile their diplomats give childish threats to the West over social media and Xi himself has threatened to “bash the heads in” of any country that takes issue with China exerting itself as a military superpower.
I hope this isn't taking one single soundbite made once and misinterpreted through translation, and holding on it for years haha. The US hurls insults at China every single day and if I were to have a dollar every time that happens then I'd be a millionnaire. "It's OK for me to do it but not the other".
God communists are insufferable. It’s like they have never grown out of their rebellious phase from when they were teenagers. They literally think all media from free and open press is bad because “West bad”, we must only trust sources like Global Times and Russia Today. I’m going to reiterate for the second time I’m not American, I’m Canadian. We were not part of the Vietnam war, or the Iraq war. Somehow we’re still an American puppet even though we have free elections and can vote in and out any government we want. Somehow we’re suppose to believe non-democratically-elected dictators aligning themselves against the West are just doing “the will of the people” at the same time LOL. CCP apologists love to pull the Vietnam example constantly, yet the PLA invaded Vietnam in 1979 as retaliation to protect Pol Pot, not to mention the current government of Vietnam wants nothing to to do with China, who is stealing islands from them, and wants closer relations with the US while remaining neutral. This “anti West” obsession is like a mental disorder
I do not think Russia is obsessed with being the #1 power. They realistically know they cannot top China or the USA or even the European Union in wealth or population. That said, the Russians still want to be one of the top Great Powers and want to able to expand their Empire like they did for hundreds of years. It frustrates them that the USA and the EU stand in their way of expansion.
I think China is in a different boat. For a long time their goal was to grow their economy and return China to greatness, but not worry so much at being #1. But now they see how badly American politicians have misruled their own country, Chinese leaders are thinking that maybe they can replace the USA as #1.
I do not think Russia is obsessed with being the #1 power. They realistically know they cannot top China or the USA or even the European Union in wealth or population. That said, the Russians still want to be one of the top Great Powers and want to able to expand their Empire like they did for hundreds of years. It frustrates them that the USA and the EU stand in their way of expansion.
I think China is in a different boat. For a long time their goal was to grow their economy and return China to greatness, but not worry so much at being #1. But now they see how badly American politicians have misruled their own country, Chinese leaders are thinking that maybe they can replace the USA as #1.
I see what you’re saying but about Russia I disagree, Russian nationalists (which also include Putin’s regime) constantly make insinuations as if they are already the world’s most powerful country and mock the US for being “weak”. They have this insecurity where if the act as if their delusion is true, then it will become reality. They have a massive nuclear arsenal, but NATO has done an effective job of protecting smaller countries from Russian aggression. The Baltics have a good reason to be wary of an aggressive Russia, but there’s a reason Putin invaded Ukraine before somewhere like Latvia.
With China you’re right on the money, I think. The political ruling class in China is hoping, praying for the demise of the West so they can fill the void. There is a feeling inherent to their ideology that it is China’s rightful place to be the most powerful country on Earth. They are less overtly expansionist than Russia is with its neighbours (with the exception of Taiwan) but they do not respect the territorial integrity of the Philippines or Vietnam and hope to capitalize from completely dominating the South China Sea in the future. They want to be like the Romans with the Mediterranean. They’re even picking beef with Australia right now for some reason, because they see its Pacific island neighbours as east targets for exploitation, and of course its China’s “Right” to dominate the Pacific
The US really cemented itself as the world’s most powerful country after WWII. Before that, it was seen as the British. The First World War was almost a time where Germany was equally as powerful as Britain. Early in the 1800s the French were probably giving the British a run for their money. Japan had aspirations of becoming a mega empire in the 1930s and 40s. All these countries gave this crap up. It’s 19th century thinking. It’s mutually beneficial to trade, collaborate with rival nations than attempt to militarily strongman your way to the top. I’m not talking about China becoming the world’s biggest economy. That’s inevitable if their GDP per capita catches up to the West. Russia is not even close, having an economy roughly the size of Canada’s in nominal GDP. This isn’t about economics, these countries literally want to carve out their own little empires of countries they can bully and manipulate politics in. Not saying the US doesn’t do its own meddling, but it’s nothing like what Russia has done in Ukraine or what the CCP is planning on doing in Taiwan. Why do they care so much about being “against” the West instead of just taking a chill pill with their military aspirations and focus on their own standard of living, which unquestionably would improve drastically with better ties to the West. Russia and China could have their own economic miracles like have happened in places like Spain, Italy, Japan, etc and become fully developed countries. All they are doing is ruining their own chances of that because they think they’re too special to not be a military antagonist to the United States. It’s ridiculous.
So are you asking "why?", or telling us why...
Kinda curious to know if you're American or not. If you wanted to argue over the values of world powers it would at least make more sense. But you seem either really coy or really naive about the battle of power between nations. You're describing how this exact battle has taken place over hundred (and its been thousands) of years...history didn't end when you came on the scene
CCP apologists love to pull the Vietnam example constantly, yet the PLA invaded Vietnam in 1979 as retaliation to protect Pol Pot, not to mention the current government of Vietnam wants nothing to to do with China, who is stealing islands from them, and wants closer relations with the US while remaining neutral.
No need for name calling.
The most recent poll released shows that within the SEA region, a majority now favours China over the US, even with pervasive US covert influence operations and its domination over the global media.
China facilitated a rapprochement between Iran and Saudi Arabia recently which is great for regional peace but bad for US divide-and-conquer influence. US is losing grip in the Mid East as well, the Saudis are pulling away and siding with Russia and China, so I'm predicting a lot more calls of "Saudi Arabia is authoritarian!!" to come.
You brought up Pol Pot not me, so don't blame me if you're reminded that the US also supported Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge politically and financially.
You can keep playing the blame game and I can keep responding, but the world will only have peace when people stop blaming and antagonising the other with some sort of "moral superiority complex" (avoiding a specific word here), and learn to understand and respect. Although I know full well that this is not, and has never been your point for this thread. So keep on hatin' if that's the desire I guess.
The most recent poll released shows that within the SEA region, a majority now favours China over the US, even with pervasive US covert influence operations and its domination over the global media.
China facilitated a rapprochement between Iran and Saudi Arabia recently which is great for regional peace but bad for US divide-and-conquer influence. US is losing grip in the Mid East as well, the Saudis are pulling away and siding with Russia and China, so I'm predicting a lot more calls of "Saudi Arabia is authoritarian!!" to come.
You brought up Pol Pot not me, so don't blame me if you're reminded that the US also supported Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge politically and financially.
You can keep playing the blame game and I can keep responding, but the world will only have peace when people stop blaming and antagonising the other with some sort of "moral superiority complex" (avoiding a specific word here), and learn to understand and respect. Although I know full well that this is not, and has never been your point for this thread. So keep on hatin' if that's the desire I guess.
You’re right, my apologies. Shouldn’t be prematurely calling you a communist without knowing you.
Listen, my friend, you don’t need to tell me about the horrors the US military have done. The pain inflicted on civilians and their families has been astronomical. It’s difficult to envision a scenario where American bases overseas to protect against Chinese and Russian aggression are no longer necessary, but I look forward to that day because the world will be a better place. Japan had its military disbanded after World War II, which was entirely necessary. Enough time has passed and the Japanese could become more like South Korea or Taiwan and bring their defence home, but they would doing good by their relations with South Korea to make a strong case they would be a better alternative to the Americans.
I could be wrong, but from what I’ve read, the presence of American military is popular nationally in Japan, but unpopular in Okinawa due to the numerous scandals around American soldiers’ disrespect (and worse) of the local people. Okinawa is an incredibly strategic location for the Americans, and moving the base further North to somewhere closer to the Japanese mainland would make it more difficult to defend Taiwan. If Japan wants to be the first line of defence in this region and can build up their own military, I can see that becoming a reality. Otherwise, it’s not worth the risk.
Pew research group shows majority of East Asia sees China as a major threat. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-re...major-threat/#
These countries have free open media and the public have formed their own opinions to come to this perception. They don’t want a war in their backyard, but the CCP won’t let it go with Taiwan.
No hard feelings. I won't pretend US military bases are in other countries by popular demand to protect the world at America's great expense. It's more like most people aren't even aware that there's US bases in their country, the governments and media never talk about it and people are too busy with their daily lives and making a living for themselves. The US comes, gets whatever military base deal with those governments and there's hardly any widespread consultation with the public or referendum. In Japan's case their unconditional surrender in 1945 left them with no choice at the time other than do let America do whatever thing, and South Korea since the Korean war.
Only that when people really don't want the base there then tough luck I guess, the US neocon establishment will do anything to keep the base there as long as they perceive it to be in their interest. Last time there was a indeed a referendum in Japan the Okinawans have wanted the base out for decades. Decades later and it's still there. It isn't about the people there as it is about US interests first and foremost.
With Taiwan and China there's an angle that they see it as an unfinished civil war. There's a more tangible dynamic though. As the Chinese economy grows through trade, they want to make sure they have space for their shipping that's protected from US naval influence. From China's perspective they don't want a Taiwan that's linked to the US. Now you could play the blame game of who's causing the tensions, but the dynamic is that regardless of who's at fault, the US is the beneficiary of China-Taiwan tensions.
The more they're at each other's throats, the more the US gets to leave its footprints in Taiwan. And the more the US is in Taiwan, the more they have influence over China's rise. Doesn't matter who's responsible for the tensions, that's the base dynamic.
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