FoxConn ?? (credit, construction, living)

[brrabbit]

Originally Posted by Kraftask

I just heard on the news that Microsoft now wants to build a datacenter on the Foxconn site. Seems like that area has plenty of warehouses but not enough housing for people.

That would be a good deal. Hopefully.

[mrkool]

I never believed for a minute that they would actually create the 13,000 good-paying jobs that they promised. And those duplicitous people proved me right.

In the end, did we actually get hosed for all the road-building, construction, buying out homeowners, etc., or did the Taiwanese company have to front at least some of the money, or reimburse us later? My wife claims that Scott Walker somehow ensured Foxconn would be held accountable if they didn't provide the jobs they promised. I am dubious.

[ManApplet]

Originally Posted by mrkool

I never believed for a minute that they would actually create the 13,000 good-paying jobs that they promised. And those duplicitous people proved me right.

In the end, did we actually get hosed for all the road-building, construction, buying out homeowners, etc., or did the Taiwanese company have to front at least some of the money, or reimburse us later? My wife claims that Scott Walker somehow ensured Foxconn would be held accountable if they didn't provide the jobs they promised. I am dubious.

Indubitably. All the kings horsesazzes and all the kings bizmen couldn't put Walker in office again. Walker failed because he couldn't put the fix in on the federal, multistate & international components of great lakes pollution. WDNR be damned.

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by ManApplet

Indubitably. All the kings horsesazzes and all the kings bizmen couldn't put Walker in office again. Walker failed because he couldn't put the fix in on the federal, multistate & international components of great lakes pollution. WDNR be damned.

You still haven't gotten back to us on the details of your "pollution" statement about FoxConn....???

Do you really think Walker's down fall was his postion on the DNR?

In the 60s & 70s I used to fish from the dock at the Belmont Harbor for perch. You couldn't see more than 2 inches deep into the water. ...Now, you can see the bottom at 30ft...all thanks to the Zebra Mussel-- and no more perch...."Pollution" has not been an environmental problem for 60 yrs now, and we've long since passed the point of diminishing returns on further regs. Now, new regs are just an uncumbering burden with no practical value for protecting Nature.

[ManApplet]

Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto

You still haven't gotten back to us on the details of your "pollution" statement about FoxConn....???

Do you really think Walker's down fall was his postion on the DNR?

In the 60s & 70s I used to fish from the dock at the Belmont Harbor for perch. You couldn't see more than 2 inches deep into the water. ...Now, you can see the bottom at 30ft...all thanks to the Zebra Mussel-- and no more perch...."Pollution" has not been an environmental problem for 60 yrs now, and we've long since passed the point of diminishing returns on further regs. Now, new regs are just an uncumbering burden with no practical value for protecting Nature.

Never mind protecting people.

Lemmie guess. You don't know a thing about aquatic ecosystems. How many Secchi disk readings have you taken during environmental studies? I knew, zero. Do you have a clue what Secchi disk readings mean in terms of pollution? Water clarity does not indicate chemical analysis. Your homework for tonight is to study nutrient pollution in water.

You mentioned lake MI but it might as well be almost any lake. Are you aware of the various fish consumption advisories ?

Here are some links to get you started for LK MI, etc :

https://www.mlive.com/news/2023/01/n...ron-smelt.html

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/safet...afefish/guides

https://widnr.widen.net/s/vzbd5wj5tx

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/-/med...70CF8BC30EE448

Mission accomplished, eh? https://e3.365dm.com/19/05/2048x1152...20190511234500

Funny story. Years ago I was catching salmon on a LK MI tributary river and some MI guys drove up to fish. During conversation they were talking about how much they liked to eat 'em. I asked them about the advisories and the conversation turned to how much better the fish were in the MI tributaries to this same lake. Their logic was because their state's advisories ( at the time) were not as strict the fish caught over there were less contaminated. I didn't pursue it because there was a bunch of them and only one of me at the river's side. By any remote chance did you ever live in MI and then fish in WI ?

[mikeugh]

Originally Posted by ManApplet

Indubitably. All the kings horsesazzes and all the kings bizmen couldn't put Walker in office again. Walker failed because he couldn't put the fix in on the federal, multistate & international components of great lakes pollution. WDNR be damned.

Considering how weak the WDNR environmental standards, and EPA standards are, it must have been some really bad plan.

[sub]

Mostly political, not environmental.
WDS at its finest.
If you’re that concerned about the environment, then go primitive. Otherwise, someone somewhere is paying the price for your actions of living a modern life. Being out of your sight and mind doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Seriously, this was all about politics, nothing more.
Probably for the best since it seems too difficult to simply get enough affordable housing built in Wisconsin.
Everything newer seems to either be a custom-built blob of half-million-dollar blandness or “luxury” dorm-style apartments where people are stacked on top of each other separated by thin paper walls.

[ManApplet]

As long as we seem to be getting all whimsical...the most recent addition to our pollution awareness is the PFAS. Teflon stuff, Fire Fighting Foam, Florine, polyfluoroalkyl substances. 'forever' as it were. Do not degrade in a timely fashion and bio accumulate, apparently everywhere. On the plus side the fishing is better because they slip right out of the water, drip dry in seconds, don't stick in the frying pan and are nearly impossible to burn.

[brrabbit]

Originally Posted by sub

Mostly political, not environmental.
WDS at its finest.
If you’re that concerned about the environment, then go primitive. Otherwise, someone somewhere is paying the price for your actions of living a modern life. Being out of your sight and mind doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Seriously, this was all about politics, nothing more.
Probably for the best since it seems too difficult to simply get enough affordable housing built in Wisconsin.
Everything newer seems to either be a custom-built blob of half-million-dollar blandness or “luxury” dorm-style apartments where people are stacked on top of each other separated by thin paper walls.

Drinking toxic water and breathing toxic air reduces your life span, and not only yours, but millions of other people. I'd hate if it happens not for the well-being of the whole state, but for good profit of some Chinese (not even American) investors.

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by ManApplet

Never mind protecting people.

Lemmie guess. You don't know a thing about aquatic ecosystems. How many Secchi disk readings have you taken during environmental studies? I knew, zero. Do you have a clue what Secchi disk readings mean in terms of pollution? Water clarity does not indicate chemical analysis. Your homework for tonight is to study nutrient pollution in water.

You mentioned lake MI but it might as well be almost any lake. Are you aware of the various fish consumption advisories ?

Here are some links to get you started for LK MI, etc :

https://www.mlive.com/news/2023/01/n...ron-smelt.html

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/safet...afefish/guides

https://widnr.widen.net/s/vzbd5wj5tx

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/-/med...70CF8BC30EE448

Mission accomplished, eh? https://e3.365dm.com/19/05/2048x1152...20190511234500

Funny story. Years ago I was catching salmon on a LK MI tributary river and some MI guys drove up to fish. During conversation they were talking about how much they liked to eat 'em. I asked them about the advisories and the conversation turned to how much better the fish were in the MI tributaries to this same lake. Their logic was because their state's advisories ( at the time) were not as strict the fish caught over there were less contaminated. I didn't pursue it because there was a bunch of them and only one of me at the river's side. By any remote chance did you ever live in MI and then fish in WI ?

Ah. An academician. This is why we're in so much trouble now with politically motivated research replacing researcg for curiosity's sake.

You may be interested in this anecdote...When I was an undergrad doing research in molecular genetics, the lab next to ours was run by a paleobotanist. This was 55 y/a when the alewives were fouling up L.Mich. beaches every spring. He colleted a few carcasses and analyzed them for Hg content...Then he analyzed some 100 million y/o fish fossils--- identical Hg levels.

Do you realize Chicago's water supply is sucked in at the puming stations located a couple miles off shore and it goes directly into the city's water system, only a little F added. I don't know that Chicago's citizens are prone to any diseases out of the ordinary expectations.

Addendum to address the refs you sityed-- They pull those "safe numbers' out of their a..um...thin air. ZERO data to support the recommendartions....

...That reminds me of the famous Flint MI/ Pb in the drinking water news a few yrs ago--They never told us the levels measured, but IF they were 1000x higher than the legal limit, then a 30kg 9 y/o (who never got any bigger and absorbed all of the Pb in the water he drank and never excreted any of it, would have to drink 5 gal a day for 110 yrs to achieve a toxic level of Pb...The level considered toxic was ascertained based on ONE incidence of chemical warfare in Iraq aboout 30 y/a. We just have no other way of knowing how much one can ingest safely or how much it takes to cause problems....The only time we ever saw Pb toxicity before was when there was Pb in gasoline and people would siphon it and accidently swallow some with regularity....Most cases in kids were only diagnosed by incidentally seeing changes in RBCs under the microscope without ever showing any actual pathological symptoms. ...BTW- IQ scores have not gone up even one point since Pb was removed from paint and fuel 50 yrs ago.

Originally Posted by brrabbit

Drinking toxic water and breathing toxic air reduces your life span, and not only yours, but millions of other people. I'd hate if it happens not for the well-being of the whole state, but for good profit of some Chinese (not even American) investors.

Well, except for coal miner's lung a century ago, nobody gets sick from breathing "polluted" air. In fact, since the EPA instituted its Draconain exhaust regs 50 y/a (and about to get even stricter) asthma and COPD rates have increaased several fold. It ain't "air pollution" causing the proiblems. Never was. (In the interest of intellectual honesty-- I must admit that the rise in incidence of lung disease is due to better awareness, diagnositc techniques & looser diagnostic criteria.)

The several studies claiming particulate matter causes problems are completely bogus and a good example of the perversion of research for political causes. A good summary- http://www.scientificintegrityinstit...CJEE110317.pdf

And as long as we're at it-- https://junkscience.com/2023/01/no-n...a-in-children/ about the recent attempts to take away gas ranges.

Also, read my posts #50 & #52 here for more numbers to put the non-existant air polution problems into perspective https://www.city-data.com/forum/gree...-reduce-6.html