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To the OP, I think your initial post is dead-on. And, I think the answer is "no". People who drive can be familiar with the concerns and logistics of transit on a superficial level, but I do not think they truly understand the nuances (per your initial post) until they live a life around transit.
Conversely, I wouldn't expect to understand a life of driving until I've lived it. I would know about accidents, expenses, etc. before I lived that life, but I wouldn't know about the nuances such as complexity of route (e.g. major merging), timeframe complexities, etc.
How much is there really to get? I never much used the bus until college. Even then I never used it daily then or when I lived in San Francisco or Seattle. It was just easier to get around via bicycle or simply walking. In both places I lived around a mile from work. When you got done with the walking to and form the bus stop and waiting, it was often just as fast to walk. Biking you run into the parking issues, but I could get around my immediate area, which was about four miles in any direction, just as fast or generally faster. The only places I really relied on transit were Prague and Seoul. Seoul was very easy with Google maps transit integration. Prague was more difficult. No Google transit directions (and not smartphone). Transit was generally frequent enough, except at nights, to not worry about schedules. Just like driving it was only difficult in going somewhere you didn't know. Once I'd been there a week I pretty much new my immediate area's transit and only encountered difficult when venturing outside my comfort bubble. That's not that much different than driving. Slightly more complicated as you have to worry about connections but the same concept. Read map plus use timetables if infrequent will do the same thing as Google's transit directions, it just is less convenient.
To the OP, I think your initial post is dead-on. And, I think the answer is "no". People who drive can be familiar with the concerns and logistics of transit on a superficial level, but I do not think they truly understand the nuances (per your initial post) until they live a life around transit.
Conversely, I wouldn't expect to understand a life of driving until I've lived it. I would know about accidents, expenses, etc. before I lived that life, but I wouldn't know about the nuances such as complexity of route (e.g. major merging), timeframe complexities, etc.
Good points here. People who rely exclusively on either mode of travel are unlikely to know all the nuances of the other. However, they can learn easily enough if need be.
I'd be really surprised if anyone is uncomfortable walking at night where I live.
At one time years ago, I worked in law enforcement for a few years. Judging by what I saw during those years, I can say that you might be surprised at the dangerous incidents that sometimes happen even in "safe" towns. I wouldn't expect that there would be much danger on a busy street at any hour, even in the largest cities, though this might depend on the neighborhood. When it comes to walking around in more isolated areas, though, I wouldn't consider a woman paranoid if she felt nervous about that, even in towns where "those kinds of things don't happen."
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Originally Posted by AJNEOA
Do you think that's the case in Boston, Chicago, etc? It depends on the area of the city and the city itself (e.g. is there mixed-use development with adequate residential?). In a lot of less dense cities in the CBD this may be the case, but certainly not an across-the-board rule. That's also only a view of commuting on transit to/from work. Another huge chunk of scenarios for transit users exists for leisure, running errands, etc. Within actual neighborhoods, I wouldn't expect people to feel unsafe at 9pm where there's adequate foot traffic, even women.
From what I've observed, some cities that are more sprawling can be pretty deserted downtown after 7:00PM or so. I'm talking about cities where the CBD is mostly office buildings, and the nightlife is widely scattered.
This can still be true in old-style, densely built cities, in some areas. I've seen Boston's financial and retail districts very quiet in the early evening. Those are two areas with little in the way of businesses that are open at night.
The difference between a city like Boston and a more sprawling city is that in Boston's financial district most streets are only a few blocks from areas with more activity, while in the downtown of a Sun Belt city, the CBD might be a mile or more from any really busy nighttime hustle and bustle. Still, there are parts of downtown Boston that are far enough from any activity at night so that it would be understandable if a woman felt nervous about walking alone.
Buses aren't attractive to most people. Even in the best cases they are slower than rush hour traffic. And sometimes the transit agency discourage riding, with small seats, bumpy rides and erratic scheduling. The main advantage is they are cheaper to ride. Trains are another story. Express trains mean that downtown locations can be a draw even for workers living 50 miles (80 km) away.
At one time years ago, I worked in law enforcement for a few years. Judging by what I saw during those years, I can say that you might be surprised at the dangerous incidents that sometimes happen even in "safe" towns. I wouldn't expect that there would be much danger on a busy street at any hour, even in the largest cities, though this might depend on the neighborhood. When it comes to walking around in more isolated areas, though, I wouldn't consider a woman paranoid if she felt nervous about that, even in towns where "those kinds of things don't happen."
True, no area is perfectly safe. But in safe areas, the risk of street crime is very low, so I'd consider unreasonable to worry about scary but very unlikely occurrences. In most places, the majority of crime is not random. As mentioned in another thread, there's also the risk of getting hit by a car walking around. Or driving. All everyday activities carry a certain amount of risk.
I'm wondering if a certain amount of the worries is generational. I know among New Yorkers of my parent's generation tend to mention and worry about crime far more than those of my generation. New York has seen one of the more drastic crime declines in the last couple decades, but many other cities have seen large declines as well.
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The difference between a city like Boston and a more sprawling city is that in Boston's financial district most streets are only a few blocks from areas with more activity, while in the downtown of a Sun Belt city, the CBD might be a mile or more from any really busy nighttime hustle and bustle. Still, there are parts of downtown Boston that are far enough from any activity at night so that it would be understandable if a woman felt nervous about walking alone.
The Financial District empties out rather quickly, but it seemed like most commercial streets had large volumes of pedestrians at least till 9 or 10 pm. Side residential streets are usually quieter but aren't usually desolate until later. From what I remember of Cambridge/ Somerville, there were some people out at 11 pm but it started to get desolate. I did a long walk at 12:30-1 am or so once and it was very empty, the single digits temperatures didn't help. Jamaica Plain is quieter but still some people out in the evening.
Going back to the OP: Do those who drive think less about street crime? I don't really think so, and my guess is those who walk for transportation in eventually get used to it and forget about any safety dangers (as long as no obvious safety incidents occur). Stuff people do everyday people take for granted as normal.
True, no area is perfectly safe. But in safe areas, the risk of street crime is very low, so I'd consider unreasonable to worry about scary but very unlikely occurrences. In most places, the majority of crime is not random. As mentioned in another thread, there's also the risk of getting hit by a car walking around. Or driving. All everyday activities carry a certain amount of risk.
Very true. The chances of a serious incident are low in many areas. My point is simply that you never know when the exception will occur. Because of that, I would never scoff at a woman who preferred to avoid walking alone through isolated spots, even in generally safe areas.
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Originally Posted by nei
I'm wondering if a certain amount of the worries is generational. I know among New Yorkers of my parent's generation tend to mention and worry about crime far more than those of my generation. New York has seen one of the more drastic crime declines in the last couple decades, but many other cities have seen large declines as well.
Interesting thought. It's like the way I've heard it said that people who lived through the Depression tend to be especially frugal, as they never quite feel totally secure financially. Maybe in the same way, people who lived in NYC in the '70's have never completely shaken the feeling that they need to be careful on the streets.
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Originally Posted by nei
The Financial District empties out rather quickly, but it seemed like most commercial streets had large volumes of pedestrians at least till 9 or 10 pm.
Yeah, my point was that even on the quiet streets in the Financial District you're not far from some of those busy commercial streets. The same is not always true of downtown business districts in Sun Belt cities, where the nightlife may be scattered all over town, not concentrated in a relatively compact central area in and around downtown.
street safety is like surfing. the same spot u surfed yesterday may be very dangerous today due to changing surf conditions. that is why people remain in these crab shells called cars. they are safe 24/7 no matter what the weather.
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