Is East Texas culturally part of the Deep South? (Houston: 2013, live)

[blkgiraffe]

How about we just make a sub-forum for what's southern or not and place all these type of threads there.

This discussion is tiresome now.

and no, I don't think Houston is part of east texas. I've never heard anyone [media or people in general] address it as such. It's always southeast or gulf coast.

[Overcooked_Oatmeal]

Yes, East Texas is the Deep South. Lufkin, Nacogdoches, Longview, Tyler, Marshall, Beaumont, etc all have a lot more in common with towns and cities in Mississippi, Alabama, or Northern Louisiana (N of Alexandria) than they do with say, Lubbock, El Paso, Odessa-Midland, or Killeen.

Historically, Houston was associated with East Texas, but in the last 50 years or so, it's seen more as a Gulf Coast City and it has a lot of association with South Louisiana. However, it can be argued that Southeast Texas is a subregion of East Texas. I'd say that Beaumont/Golden Triangle region is SE TX and East Texas. But that's a Your Mileage May Vary/ Six in one hand/Half-a-dozen-in-another type of debate.

I do agree this argument is tiresome and all the indignant banging of keyboards in the world isn't going to change people's minds.

[Nairobi]

I agree, OO.

My main problem with some arguments that exclude Houston from East Texas is that they'll instead place it in the Texas Gulf Coast/Coastal Bend "cultural" region, which doesn't make much sense at all, as Houston is obviously not similar to cities like Corpus or Brownsville.

Docjef pretty much hit the nail on the head, by comparing it to Atlanta, with both cities being in the south but not necessarily of the region, in current times. Still, if there's one region Houston must be placed in, it's Southeast Texas, which is a subregion of East Texas.

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

East Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would say it is, both physically/geographically and culturally. Pine woods, cyprus, swamps, spanish moss, kudzu, alligators/bayous, sweet tea, grits, most black/white, ex-slave plantation, colonial homes, Civil War dignitaries, drawls. Houston may be becoming more cosmopolitan, though black folks in H-town still have thick as molasses accents. Have whites in say Beaumont ever spoken in a non-rhotic accent reminiscent of southern Alabama or Louisiana?

Beaumont, even Houston, seems in some ways closer to New Orleans than Austin.

That's a very interesting question. My personal opinion on the matter is that the culture, demographics, dialect and spoken accents start to blur and blend with Louisiana (which, of course, is very different from the other "dirty south" Gulf Coast states in its own right) when you are (i) South of Sam Rayburn, (ii) East of Lake Livingston, (iii) North of Chambers County and, of course, West of the Sabine. North of Sam Rayburn is a whole different animal, that's more similar to "Northeast Texas Proper" if you ask me. Once you start seeing blue star stickers on cars instead of fleur de lis, you have passed into an appreciably different cultural reservoir.

I voted "no" because there wasn't a "something like that" option.

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

I agree, OO.

My main problem with some arguments that exclude Houston from East Texas is that they'll instead place it in the Texas Gulf Coast/Coastal Bend "cultural" region, which doesn't make much sense at all, as Houston is obviously not similar to cities like Corpus or Brownsville.

Docjef pretty much hit the nail on the head, by comparing it to Atlanta, with both cities being in the south but not necessarily of the region, in current times. Still, if there's one region Houston must be placed in, it's Southeast Texas, which is a subregion of East Texas.

I always thought "SE Texas" just meant "Houston".

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by jimboburnsy

I always thought "SE Texas" just meant "Houston".

Most often, "Southeast Texas" is used to refer to Greater Houston and the Golden Triangle (Beaumont, Port Arthur, and Orange), but on rarer occasions, it can be used to describe just the Houston area or a much larger region in general.

[Nairobi]

As I know it's been stated before, it's really an "upstate and downstate" issue. South Louisiana is different from North Louisiana, South Alabama is different from North Alabama, North Georgia is different from South Georgia, etc. Virtually every southern state has two or more parts that are distinct from the other, yet they still have obvious ties.

If East Texas were it's own state, cities like Tyler, Longview, and Texarkana would make up the upstate, while the downstate would be composed of the Southeast Texas metros. It's quite simple, if you ask me.

[tstone]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

I agree, OO.

My main problem with some arguments that exclude Houston from East Texas is that they'll instead place it in the Texas Gulf Coast/Coastal Bend "cultural" region, which doesn't make much sense at all, as Houston is obviously not similar to cities like Corpus or Brownsville.

There is actually a lot of influence and similarity in Houston vs further down the coast, at least as much as there is from Southern Louisiana and further up East Texas, if not moreso in the past few decades. In the most recent times that influence "gradient" from the lower TX coast has extended all the way to Port Arthur. SE TX (Houston moreso) is at a huge cultural crossroad.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by tstone

There is actually a lot of influence and similarity in Houston vs further down the coast, at least as much as there is from Southern Louisiana and further up East Texas, if not moreso in the past few decades. In the most recent times that influence "gradient" from the lower TX coast has extended all the way to Port Arthur. SE TX (Houston moreso) is at a huge cultural crossroad.

There's a difference between recent phenomenons that have largely been spurred by immigration and cultural institutions that have been in place for generations. At it's heart, Houston is a southern city through and through.

I can't speak for everyone, but as a native Houstonian, any cultural traits that come from being closer to the border have had no direct influence on my life, on my family, or most that I am close to. It's always been pretty clear to me that I'd likely have more in common with someone from South Carolina than someone from South Texas.

[tstone]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

There's a difference between recent phenomenons that have largely been spurred by immigration and cultural institutions that have been in place for generations. At it's heart, Houston is a southern city through and through.

I can't speak for everyone, but as a native Houstonian, any cultural traits that come from being closer to the border have had no direct influence on my life, on my family, or most that I am close to. It's always been pretty clear to me that I'd likely have more in common with someone from South Carolina than someone from South Texas.

I think that says more about what kind of people you try to avoid than what kind of influence SE TX has. I'm also a native Houstonian and would have just as much in common with either someone from Appalachia, or a gringo from South TX. There was a time in the "recent" past where South TX was full of southerner cotton farmers (complete with the Nolan Ryan type accent), but that whole area has suffered a perfect example of white flight/exodus in "recent" times. By "recent" I mean the past 50 years as mentioned above. Which is roughly 1/3rd of the time Texas has been a state. Before our lives are over, that "recent" is going to mean the majority of the time Texas has been a state.