Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Class sizes can be larger with more discipline
Sounds just like Public School Jr Hi / kindergarten to me...
Lots of chest pumping and excuses.
Get's you through a career
Soaking up the pension, basking in the pride of a lifeitme wonderful 'achievement'.
Who has denied that? I haven't, nor has anyone else.
What has been noted is that when classes get larger, the breakpoint will vary with the class and the mix of students, some students will get lost in the mix.
A large class of high achievers is easy to keep track of, for one those kids know to ask if they aren't getting something and won't hesitate to do so as a general rule.
A large class of mixed ability kids is a bit harder, many of them don't want to be embarrassed in front of their peers or be accused of being a suck up.
A large class of low ability students with differing deficits is much harder, many can't quite tell you what they don't understand coupled with what I mentioned about mixed ability classes.
But you know all this having been a classroom teacher and all like you claim.
Last edited by North Beach Person; 10-14-2023 at 08:19 AM..
I was an earth science teacher, and tried to do about two lab activities a week. For most of my thirteen years in the classroom I had 5 classes, about 25 kids per class, total around 125 or so. That was about 250 labs to evaluate per week. The last year I taught in Prince Georges County, Maryland the idiotic voters passed a tax initiative that resulted in me then having 6 classes a day, 40 kids per class. Does anyone really think that a teacher can (or even should have to) grade 480 labs a week?
No one should ever forget the strain on teachers trying to grade hundreds of papers. My sister taught middle school for about ten years. She *always* brought home work to grade. I never remember a time she didn't do this. Escaping that was part of the reason she got a PhD and became a college professor.
No one should ever forget the strain on teachers trying to grade hundreds of papers. My sister taught middle school for about ten years. She *always* brought home work to grade. I never remember a time she didn't do this. Escaping that was part of the reason she got a PhD and became a college professor.
We had an English teacher in the school where I was principal who was the best English teacher I had ever seen...by far. But I kept telling her, "Karen, you're gonna burn yourself out and then you'll leave". Result, she burned herself out and left. Made a healthy income doing private tutoring.
Who has denied that? I haven't, nor has anyone else.
What has been noted is that when classes get larger, the breakpoint will vary with the class and the mix of students, some students will get lost in the mix.
A large class of high achievers is easy to keep track of, for one those kids know to ask if they aren't getting something and won't hesitate to do so as a general rule.
A large class of mixed ability kids is a bit harder, many of them don't want to be embarrassed in front of their peers or be accused of being a suck up.
A large class of low ability students with differing deficits is much harder, many can't quite tell you what they don't understand coupled with what I mentioned about mixed ability classes.
But you know all this having been a classroom teacher and all like you claim.
It's also worth considering that middle and high-school level instruction is rarely effective if the teacher strictly takes on the role of standing in front of the room and lecturing, simply because students in those age groups are not always aware how to navigate difficulties in their own learning. It's also necessary to circulate among the students, assess their strengths and weaknesses with the concept that is being taught, and fill in gaps in their understanding along the way.
I don't think there are any absolute answers to what a potential cap could be on class size. A lot of it has to do with not only discipline, but the chemistry of the class and the needs of individual learners. Some mixes of students would be fine at 40, some mixes at 20, some in between, etc.
Last edited by NJmmadude; 10-19-2023 at 11:22 AM..
It's also worth considering that middle and high-school level instruction is rarely effective if the teacher strictly takes on the role of standing in front of the room and lecturing, simply because students in those age groups are not always aware how to navigate difficulties in their own learning. It's also necessary to circulate among the students, assess their strengths and weaknesses with the concept that is being taught, and fill in gaps in their understanding along the way.
I don't think there are any absolute answers to what a potential cap could be on class size. A lot of it has to do with not only discipline, but the chemistry of the class and the needs of individual learners. Some mixes of students would be fine at 40, some mixes at 20, some in between, etc.
Yes. Computerized scheduling makes that difficult, however.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,694 posts, read 58,012,579 times
Reputation: 46171
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Yes. Computerized scheduling makes that difficult, however.
news flash...
We have AI now, and computer scheduling can sort by 'personality' / learning / behavior disorders.
Eezy Peezy, done deal, in 30 nanoseconds.
Could be deemed 'against protocol, or... could be VERY beneficial to "Class sizes can be larger with more discipline - and intelligent use of computer scheduling"
i have taken college classes with 200 student, you sat there quiet for 45 minute, no home work, no weekly test, at end of course you took a final and that was the grade, just one test. you either learned or failed, they didnt care
Disruptive students are a major factor requiring low student to teacher ratios.
Student to teacher ratios should be determined by how much time a teacher can dedicate to each individual student, not how many students can be crammed into a classroom before the kids start throwing textbooks around the room.
If a school day for 30 students runs from 9:00 to 3:30, you would have 5 teaching hours with 60 minutes off for lunch and two 15 minute recesses. That results in a total of 300 teaching minutes a day or 10 minutes per student. When you increase the class to 40 students, that number drops to 7.5 minutes per student.
I don't work in the education sector but I would tend to think that with all things being equal, the grade point average of the class with 30 students would be higher than the class with 40.
But it's been proven time and again that children don't learn from a Sage on the Stage, but rather from a Guide on the Side. The one who is doing the talking is the one doing the learning, so lecturing has limited use in a public k-12 school. For some, auditory processing is a primary learning style, but I would say that applies to very few of today's children.
I'm a school librarian, not a classroom teacher, in a Title 1 school (low income students and lots of English Language Learners). Title 1 kids are loud, it's a cultural thing. So the more you have the noisyer it gets. Often I have a cluster of listeners at my feet trying to hear the story and a ring of students at the back of the room just chatting and carrying on. I will always prefer smaller classes. We are grateful when 1-3 students are absent per class.
I only teach in 45 minute increments, but I can say in a room where you have to circulate around and monitor what kids are doing, and take time to help those who are struggling, there are only so many students you can interact with during a lesson. So my bottom line is: Smaller class sizes are better.
Luckily I don't have to give grades, so if a student spends the entire class typing things into Google Translate and struggles to understand the assignment, I don't have to fail them for not being able to complete the activity. If they can complete 2-3 items on a list of 15, I consider that a win because I'm hoping they have gained some understanding of the content.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
