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I can see this working out as a light rail line if it connects to the Amtrak station and up to the airport with maybe one or two more stop in Mattydale (going north from the rail right of way via Brewerton or Lemoyne) and/or the Northern Lights Shopping Center along the way to the airport, an infill station on Genesse St, and an infill station on Salina Street. If ever that plot of land between 690 and the lake were to be developed and/or turned into a park, then a stop at where the railway bends northeast would make sense. In regards to the prior service, the stop distances were a bit far apart for such a short line and while it got to downtown and the university, the frequencies were bad, and it didn't get to the Amtrak station or the airport which are places one can reasonably assume someone coming in or leaving without a car.
The idea that it was run as basically commuter rail for such a short track length and without connections to the places where people are guaranteed to be without a car seems ridiculously silly in hindsight.
The system used heavy rail of a current right of way, but there is still track that was laid down by the baseball stadium near the Transportation Center/Regional Market/Destiny USA. It never was completed though. However, what you mentioned could be a good idea in terms of using existing rail that goes further north or laying down heavy rail that goes by places you mentioned.
If you ever come to the area, you can occasionally see former trolley tracks peeking or slightly exposed on some major streets in the city. So, you could possibly create space on these streets where the rail currently is under said streets.
Also, that land between the lake and 690 is currently being developed around the Inner Harbor. There is an Aloft Hotel currently there and apartments are also being built. That is where Destiny USA and a new Embassy Suites Hotel are located south of the lake.
You also have quite a few lofts, condos and other apartments in the Franklin Square area to the south of that area and just NW of Downtown. So, once the land gets developed, there should be an increased need for public transportation.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 12-02-2017 at 06:41 AM..
Good points and I’m surprised that TCAT or a joint transit relationship doesn’t offer a shuttle to Destiny USA/the Transportation/Hancock International from Cornell/IC and TC3.
At some remove as I now am, it is surprising. However, such decisions are locally based. To a significant fraction of the populace of Ithaca, the "next larger city" is not Elmira or Syracuse, but New York City. And they already have supplemental buses that go there. https://ipp.cornell.edu/content/camp...s-bus-service/
At some remove as I now am, it is surprising. However, such decisions are locally based. To a significant fraction of the populace of Ithaca, the "next larger city" is not Elmira or Syracuse, but New York City. And they already have supplemental buses that go there. https://ipp.cornell.edu/content/camp...s-bus-service/
That is true, but you would think that there would be some type of transportation option from Ithaca to Syracuse.
That is true, but you would think that there would be some type of transportation option from Ithaca to Syracuse.
I thought the 'hound used to, but it doesn't, looks like one would have to change in Binghamton at least, and neither Greyhound nor Trailways web searches seem to like trips between Ithaca and Syracuse. It does seem like a missed opportunity.
Even back in old railroad days, that would likely have been a difficult trip. Lehigh Valley was the main railroad in Ithaca, probably Ithaca-Auburn service disappeared early and I think the LV and NYC stations in Auburn were fairly far apart, so likely Geneva would have been the transfer point. Ithaca-Cortland passenger service I think was done by the 1930's, and the LV and DL&W stations in Cortland weren't close by either. It didn't help that the LV stop by Cornell campus was distant in railroad terms from the main station in west end Ithaca, the rail way around was via Van Etten and abandoned early. I think the railroad from East Ithaca to Freeville was embargoed after Agnes in 1972, and then torn out up to McLean Rd. in Cortlandville in 1977 (I'm old enough to remember the scrappers, alas).
The part of the Ithaca & Cortland/Lehigh Valley bed in Cortland County was, oddly enough, specifically retained by the County in 1977 for a trail - very early for that movement, but, alas, the county highway department then forgot about it. It's been cleared out now by Lime Hollow Nature Center, as a cinder-dirt path rather than multi-use trail, roughly from the county line to a parklet in a little development behind A&W restaurant.
Many of the rail beds in Tompkins County are now being resurrected for rail trails. http://dryden.ny.us/wp-content/uploa...out-071416.pdf - though Freeville to the Tompkins/Cortland county line is conspicuously absent from at least the public program.
Other than via Geneva (the southernmost part of which is now Black Diamond Trail | On the trail, at last! ) the LV had two routes between Ithaca and Auburn in the way old days - via east side of Cayuga Lake, and via Freeville and west side of Owasco Lake. Can't imagine the hundreds of cottagers would like to see rail restored here either.
I thought the 'hound used to, but it doesn't, looks like one would have to change in Binghamton at least, and neither Greyhound nor Trailways web searches seem to like trips between Ithaca and Syracuse. It does seem like a missed opportunity.
Even back in old railroad days, that would likely have been a difficult trip. Lehigh Valley was the main railroad in Ithaca, probably Ithaca-Auburn service disappeared early and I think the LV and NYC stations in Auburn were fairly far apart, so likely Geneva would have been the transfer point. Ithaca-Cortland passenger service I think was done by the 1930's, and the LV and DL&W stations in Cortland weren't close by either. It didn't help that the LV stop by Cornell campus was distant in railroad terms from the main station in west end Ithaca, the rail way around was via Van Etten and abandoned early. I think the railroad from East Ithaca to Freeville was embargoed after Agnes in 1972, and then torn out up to McLean Rd. in Cortlandville in 1977 (I'm old enough to remember the scrappers, alas).
The part of the Ithaca & Cortland/Lehigh Valley bed in Cortland County was, oddly enough, specifically retained by the County in 1977 for a trail - very early for that movement, but, alas, the county highway department then forgot about it. It's been cleared out now by Lime Hollow Nature Center, as a cinder-dirt path rather than multi-use trail, roughly from the county line to a parklet in a little development behind A&W restaurant.
Many of the rail beds in Tompkins County are now being resurrected for rail trails. http://dryden.ny.us/wp-content/uploa...out-071416.pdf - though Freeville to the Tompkins/Cortland county line is conspicuously absent from at least the public program.
Other than via Geneva (the southernmost part of which is now Black Diamond Trail | On the trail, at last! ) the LV had two routes between Ithaca and Auburn in the way old days - via east side of Cayuga Lake, and via Freeville and west side of Owasco Lake. Can't imagine the hundreds of cottagers would like to see rail restored here either.
Great information and I agree that it is a missed opportunity in order to connect the 2 cities, as well as the colleges that would be along that path via bus.
Is there any rail left in Tompkins County? You can even see on online maps where the rail you mentioned was located and they are listed as trails on there as well.
That is true, but you would think that there would be some type of transportation option from Ithaca to Syracuse.
There is: it's called an automobile -- in private hands
The market for regularly-scheduled public transportation in rural areas is extremely thin; particularly when the effects of the subsidized shared-ride programs providing options for the elderly and disabled who travel to necessary services are factored in.
And what's left beyond that is not a very attractive market; people living from day today on the fringes of the economy who will cut every corner they can,
There is: it's called an automobile -- in private hands
The market for regularly-scheduled public transportation in rural areas is extremely thin; particularly when the effects of the subsidized shared-ride programs providing options for the elderly and disabled who travel to necessary services are factored in.
And what's left beyond that is not a very attractive market; people living from day today on the fringes of the economy who will cut every corner they can,
I'm thinking in regards to the college students that live in Ithaca or even Cortland that could use that route. Or vice versa, as you may even get some students that are in Syracuse that would go to Ithaca as well. It isn't a route that has to run quite as frequently as urban area routes.
An example of this is the route that runs from SUNY Oswego to Syracuse daily: https://www.centro.org/docs/default-...o.pdf?sfvrsn=2 You actually would have SUNY Oswego students that would use this bus in order to go to Syracuse for say Destiny USA or to the Transportation Center. Some residents may even use it as a way to commute as well.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 12-06-2017 at 08:45 AM..
I'm thinking in regards to the college students that live in Ithaca or even Cortland that could use that route. Or vice versa, as you may even get some students that are in Syracuse that would go to Ithaca as well. It isn't a route that has to run quite as frequently as urban area routes.
An example of this is the route that runs from SUNY Oswego to Syracuse daily: https://www.centro.org/docs/default-...o.pdf?sfvrsn=2 You actually would have SUNY Oswego students that would use this bus in order to go to Syracuse for say Destiny USA or to the Transportation Center. Some residents may even use it as a way to commute as well.
I'm sure the potential ridership is there, but it likely would be concentrated around certain peaks; the rest of the time, the service would likely be very lightly used, and every rider who finds an alternative -- be it for one occasion, or on a regular basis -- is revenue lost. And we all know that college students are quite resourceful at improvising the means to save a few bucks in the short run.
I'm sure the potential ridership is there, but it likely would be concentrated around certain peaks; the rest of the time, the service would likely be very lightly used, and every rider who finds an alternative -- be it for one occasion, or on a regular basis -- is revenue lost. And we all know that college students are quite resourceful at improvising the means to save a few bucks in the short run.
I get that, but it still would be a viable option that be used by others as well. I’ve actually taken the Oswego route and more people actually take it than some may realize. So, given the higher number of college students in Ithaca, as well as those in Cortland along the way, it could have the ridership in order for it to be sustainable.
I think the issue is a matter of transit jurisdiction, as transit systems tend to go in line with the MSA or CSA. So, it would likely have to be a privately owned bus service that would run that route.
Also, the mentioning of Ithaca came into play due to an article mentioned earlier in the thread. It was about passenger service to Binghamton from Syracuse and the idea of connecting to Ithaca to that potential rail service somehow via rail(which was answered) or via bus was an idea thrown out there.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 12-06-2017 at 09:46 AM..
An Ithaca-Cortland-Syracuse frequent bus would likely be used by commuters too, in both directions and from middle out. Think of all the adjunct faculty/former grad students with the significant other still in school, etc. The college areas also tend to be the employment centers in deindustrialized upstate, and parking is always a hassle.
The one remaining rail line in Tompkins County roughly follows Rt 34 from Lansing through Ithaca to Spencer, Van Etten, and to Sayre PA. The main point of this line was coal delivery to https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...neration_Plant which I believe is shut down. https://www.cargill.com/industrial/w...yuga-salt-mine might still ship some of its product by rail as well. This vector is probably the least desirable possible from a passenger service point of view, though some people do actually commute to jobs at Cornell from Bradford County PA.
The Cornell University heating plant formerly received coal too, at the end from a transshipment point downtown. If memory serves, that had converted to oil in the 1960's and went back to coal in the 1980's, an interval that was key to allowing the rail line east of Ithaca to be shut down. The ex-LV is still in place from Harford, south of Dryden along Route 38 (well, southeast, allowing this to be in Cortland County not Tompkins), location of a propane storage field, to Owego. Perhaps, if Cornell had still been a coal receiver, those who planned the Conrail lines to be retained might have kept East Ithaca-Cortland and a spur through Dryden to Harford, which would have been a lot more useful spine from a potential passenger service perspective.
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