Foundation repair fiasco - frustrating! (Dallas, San Antonio: insurance, loan, lawyer)

[TrapperL]

In regards to the slabs. Where you saw sand used, we use #2 base but the specs actually call for any materials with a PI of 17 or less. The #2 base or gravel is common here and cheaper to use than trucking in sand from the counties to the south. But the function is the same. The function is to allow any moisture to drain away from the concrete and provide a stable platform for the slab. But like anything in nature, it can only do so much and then it fails. When you have a black clay with so much heave that it rises 16", there's not much the gravel or sand is going to help. The methodology is not at fault in San Antonio, the clay is the issue and it's HIGHLY unpredictable. A friend just got finished cutting out the concrete floor in a customers garage from heaving. You couldn't walk in the garage it had heaved so much. The house is over 30 years old and had never had any foundation issues. As the clay here expands it also moves- kinda like a blob. That's why the streets break open and some times you can see where the curbs look like they were installed by a drunk. It wasn't put in like that, the ground has moved.
Can we put better foundations down? Probably, but there's no real guarantee that it will change things. When the soil has the ability to move as much as it does here, there's not a lot you can do with it. So the engineers use the typical standards for this area and design slabs accordingly. The builders only specify to an engineer that they want a post tension slab on a specific lot and the engineers are the ones that design and set the specs, not the builders. They might possibly do better with a pier and beam foundation as they are the most stable, but they are not without issues either. You'll find the costs are dramatically higher with that type of construction and there's no way to recoup the costs because of the appraisal system used. Most builders are responsible to the shareholders to show a profit, it won't happen if the builder is putting more into the house than he can sell it for. The current system, although not perfect, averagely works. But then there are some areas that it doesn't matter what you put down for a foundation, it's going to move and not in a good way.
You must have seen the mall with the Styrofoam up north. They use it to insulate the foundation from the cold, frozen ground. They don't have the shifting soils like we do and can float the foundation on it. They would use sand where we use gravel because it's at hand and easy to come by. PI is still going to be 17 or less so there's no real advantage.
Builders are dealing with circumstances here that they wouldn't have to deal with in other parts of the state or nation. No builder just wants to have his product fail. But he does want there to be as few issues as possible while allowing him to make money- that's what he's in business for. You can't make money by throwing money at warranty issues either and builders know that. So they go with what works averagely. So averagely the foundations we use here works, just not for every house. There is no REAL solution to the issue except that the buyers need to be aware of the issues with our soils. Folks moving into the area will be totally oblivious to the problem and those are the ones that are going to buy into high PI areas. It's all about doing your homework when buying a home and the phrase "buyer beware" is a major part of buying any home.

[Goominim]

My whole neighborhood has had foundation problems, it seems. Considering how long houses have been built in San Antonio, it seems that engineers would have figured out a way to prevent foundation issues decades ago.

Please excuse this simple thought, but wouldn't a beefier slab erradicate all foundation failures? I was envisioning that a slab thick enough would probably come through unscathed even if the ground entirely disappeared under half of it. Would this not work?

Another question - would it be more financially sound to sell a house with cracks in the walls as-is, or fix the foundation, and then sell?

Another-nother question. How can one protect themselves from buying a house with future foundation problems? Is there a map of rocky areas of city, which as I gather from the above post/s, would deter the ground moving?

Is there publicly-available information indicating areas of town with the most foundation repairs? Shouldn't there be a map available with this data to help prospective home buyers with their home purchase?

[LadyinSA]

To Groomin -

If you read through this entire thread (Foundation Repair Fiasco), you'll see some very good advice from Trapper L regarding areas of town that are more vulnerable to foundation problems than others. Also, he mentioned looking at the street itself in order to help you identify problems - a cracked street would indicate nearby homes are experiencing problems.

As far as I can tell, buying a new home would mean getting the plasticity index information and getting a copy of the Engineer's Foundation report. These are important issues that will never be mentioned by any Builder's Sales Agent or Realestate Agent. They just want their money.

[Goominim]

Yes, I read the entire thread. I actually posted about 10 months back, and Trapper was kind enough to reply with some info.

The thing is, my neighborhood is in one of the areas with fewer problems (according to info from Trapper), and the streets do not have cracks or dips, yet many homes here are not faring well.

I'm surprised of the lack of info that is presented to prospective home buyers regarding soil conditions and overall foundation concerns. It's nice to know if a particular house has had foundation repairs, but I think it would be more helpful if the buyer knew the overall percentage of other homes in the area with foundation repairs. This would allow for an educated guess as to whether a home will need foundation repairs in the near future, even if it hasn't had repairs previously. This info would best be presented while browsing for homes on the various real estate websites and through other media. That way, every buyer could consider the cost of the home, as well as the probability of foundation repairs in a given time frame.

They publish flood plain maps, why not maps indicating percentages of homes in an area with foundation repairs and/or the soil types? Or maybe a probability of foundation repairs, given as a percentage for each home? I wouldn't be surprised if this information is collected and calculated in a database somewhere. It's just not shared openly.

[jenny82]

My mom has had this problem and has had her house piered twice. The first time she used Ram Jack and while they were friendly, they gave her a bad recommendation to just pier certain sections instead of the whole house........big mistake. I'm not sure who the 2nd company was - someone my uncle refered her to - they put in concrete blocks about 3-4 yrs ago, but her house is still sinking and they supposedly have a lifetime warranty. She's called them out several times to check it or adjust it and they just say give it time or don't show up.......the guys who came to do the actual work didn't even speak English, didn't mark electrical lines, left the house a mess - finding good contractors with good workers is a miracle in this town.

My parents insurance company did a forensic test because my parents added foundation coverage to their house insurance........of course, you have to use the one they pick and of course, he sides with the insurance so the insurance didn't have to pay........apparantly the "foundation coverage" only applies to water leaks (which there was at some point, but he worded it so that the foundation problems could not have been caused by the water leak.....like I said.....he's no doubt paid off by the insurance company). The engineer did say in his report in fancy terminology, that basically the house should never have been built on that land. What's hilarious is it would have cost the insurance company less to pay for the piers than to hire this engineer to drill a hole in my moms kitchen tile and take dirt samples and write a report that said they didn't need to cover it..........where is the logic in that?? A bit of a crock since my parents had the coverage and paid for it for well over 10 years.

I should also mention that my parents purchased a home that was the model home for the subdivision when it was new and the plumbing is a mess and runs all through the foundation.........don't get me started on the problems thats caused. Every house in that subdivision has been piered (or needs to be) and has major problems. Most houses in this city should not be built on the property they were built on (farmland).....they don't make houses here like they do up north; builders just want to throw the houses up and get outta there..........several subdivisions across town have had problems with builders and residents fighting them. Wish the city or state would take note of these and really crack down on the builders.

[jenny82]

Groomin - if information was provided where foundation problems were, house values would decrese dramatically causing a problem for the city since a lot of subdivisions have foundation problems.

The foundations here aren't made thick enough, as I said in my first post, the builders want to get in, sell, and get out - they don't care about longevity. There are several subdivisions not too far from my and my parents house that are built on rockier ground (which was very apparant during the building process with piles of rocks everywhere instead of soft dirt or clay).

As for selling a house, my parents had their house up for sale after they had foundation repair done.......still couldn't sell it.....

[Goominim]

Originally Posted by jenny82

Groomin - if information was provided where foundation problems were, house values would decrese dramatically causing a problem for the city since a lot of subdivisions have foundation problems.

The foundations here aren't made thick enough, as I said in my first post, the builders want to get in, sell, and get out - they don't care about longevity. (edit)

This is exactly what I'm having a time with understanding. If there are widespread foundation issues with homes, why hasn't something been done about it? There should be better checks in place to protect the buying public. If even the insurance companies are skirting the issue (sorry about your parents' home), there is a major issue.

Maybe something as simple as a regulation requiring builders to increase the thickness of the slabs will help. I know inspectors have been known to look the other way when doing inspections, but something has to be done about this.

[TexasRedneck]

How about the BUYER "doing something about it"? When we bought, we looked at the slab design specifically - because it's OUR responsibility to be a smart consumer. People can make mistakes - and some folks are just plain crooked. So, why "rely" on some rule/regulation/law to do what WE should be doing - making sure things are done right?!??

There's already way too many laws/regulations - you simply can't keep track of them all. Let the market dictate who/what survives.

[Goominim]

If the majority of homes are going to be compromised because the building standards are not sufficient, there's little that the buyer can do, other than to do what you suggest.

[TexasRedneck]

What do you expect - you're living in a city more concerned with renaming a city street after someone who never lived here than they are about really doing something that will have real impact.