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'It is said that less than 1% of couples are in open marriages,' Neil explains. 'Twenty-percent of couples have experimented with consensual non monogamy [but] open marriage has a 92% failure rate. Eighty-percent of people in open marriages experience jealousy of the other.'
Tobias:
You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised... a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed but free to explore extramarital encounters.
Lindsay:
Well, did it work for those people?
Tobias:
No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... but it might work for us.
'It is said that less than 1% of couples are in open marriages,' Neil explains. 'Twenty-percent of couples have experimented with consensual non monogamy [but] open marriage has a 92% failure rate. Eighty-percent of people in open marriages experience jealousy of the other.']
The problem with that statement is that it's just what some guy says in a blog. There's actually no link to the data that would back his statement up, which makes it meaningless. "It is said" is hearsay, not science.
Last edited by fleetiebelle; 12-13-2022 at 01:15 PM..
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,937 posts, read 36,940,305 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
The problem with that statement is that it's just what some guy says in a blog. There's actually no link to the data that would back his statement up, which makes it meaningless.
It also confuses open marriages and ENM, they are not synonyms, which pretty much negates the rest of it.
It could be argued that if your Dad had chosen to punish your Mom by breaking up with her, rather than "rewarding" her by marrying her anyways, he would have possibly cheated himself out of an eventual happy future. There is no telling what his future would have been like, he could have been eaten up by bitterness and mistrust for the rest of his days. He could have become one of these crazy dudes who hates women....but he did not.
Another thing... I believe that forgiveness is a GIFT. No one is obligated to forgive another person who harmed them. If forgiveness is granted, they have to stand behind it and give the other person the grace to learn, grow and do better.
It's crazy to think that if he reconcile with her then I wouldn't have been born. I wouldn't be here without them. I guess things happen for a reason.
Yeah to forgive someone that hurt you badly like that requires major strength. Then mom could've easily been a hypocrite when he revenged cheated but she returned the same favor too. In the journal, he explained she was more lenient towards him and even thought she kind of deserved it, that she was partially to blame for starting it all, for hurting him first. His cheating got a must faster reconciliation and trust was regained quicker than hers. Then again, I guess it's easier for the reformed cheater to forgive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyclingChemist
Cheating is a 100% deal breaker for me. It is the worst form of emotional abuse; it the emotional equivalent of burning someone's face with a propane torch, horrifically painful and leaves permanent scars. Anyone capable of it is a sick person and unworthy of a relationship with any quality partner.
Any relationship that you salvage with reconciliation will be an inferior shadow of what it was before.
The same goes for any mention of polyamory/'Ethical' nonmonogamy/Open relationships.
Believe me this is what I would've thought before reading dad's journal but I have a better understanding by now. Even though I wouldn't forgive if my fiance cheated, maybe other people like my parents maybe can successfully work it out and never cheat again. From what I've read about the last pages of his journal, I would say it sounds like their relationship has been better and stronger than before.
As for polyamory relationships, that's an agreement between a couple to have other sexual partners. That's something I don't agree either but I guess if that works out for some people, whatever suits them.
(@CyclingChemist's links) Not only that but even the way it's presented is faulty as hell.
He said that open marriage has this high rate of "failure" and follows up by saying that (I guess?) this means that one spouse experiences jealousy. Non monogamists will be happy to tell you that successful ENM does not mean you never feel jealousy. What does "failure" mean, exactly? I'm not seeing a metric for that. I would be more willing to consider this if data on divorce of the primary couple were the determining factor but no one says that in the article and there's no source data given. Then it goes on to list things like poly and swinging as "other" forms of extramarital sex (besides open marriages)... So what, that 92% failure rate only applies to...who, exactly? It's vague, and it's deliberately vague.
And Tobias, "a number"...that's how many, exactly? Not to mention that again we have a flawed premise. You do not repair a troubled primary relationship by exploring non monogamy. If anything you need to have VERY solid footing to start with.
Which brings me to something else. I think that those who are strongly wired for monogamy (which again, is totally fine) might struggle with the idea that a couple who are happy in their marriage and with each other might consider ENM. It implies to some that one's spouse is not "enough." That's not really how such individuals see this. They would say something along the lines of going to a buffet and you really love this one dish and since you feel some need to declare it "enough" you abstain from trying the rest...these folks just see it as more experiences to have. Or the children analogy which is often trotted out...if you have one child, that doesn't mean that having another and also loving your second or third kid makes you less loving of the first. They see love (and/or sex) as an infinite resource. What kind of people do this? Mostly affluent, child free, liberal ones. Though there are exceptions.
Look, I did not come here to shill for non-monogamy. I was poly for a year but ultimately it was not for me. Wasn't a disaster, just was not sustainable for my life, but just...WHO CARES? People try all kinds of things that work or don't. If it doesn't involve you, it doesn't involve you.
And like I said, we are all free to have our opinions (such being "like a-holes" from what I hear) but no one is obligated to give a damn about yours, mine or anyone's. And particularly with the situation that OP was faced with, she is free to have very strong standards about her own life (and good on her for it!) but being this kind of judgy about her PARENTS can only have one result...to cause damage to her relationship with them.
So unless she was looking for an excuse to huff and puff and flounce out of their lives, leaving only the lingering aroma of smug superiority in her wake...lol...she'd really be better off letting it go, as they seem to have done. (EDIT - OP, please read this as a reply to CC. As I'm sure is completely obvious I do get my hackles up a little at intense judgment of difference...It's a whole big philosophy I've got particular to life in the US, we have to find ways to at least tolerate if not accept each other, and the division and conflict in recent years makes me sad. Families especially...so need to stick together and have had it rough in lots of cases. Y'know?)
I've been hunting the primary source but the 92% stat is very prolific throughout the internet. The orginal source appears to be:
Quote:
Originally Posted by post on another forum
One helpful commenter made the offhand reply that they had read that 90 percent of open marriages end in divorce, and I asked them to please send me a link to where they read that because it fit with my plucked-out-of-the-air figure, and I ended up finding it myself.
Granted, the website that provided this study is a legal referral service specialising in divorce. It's almost as if they are encouraging people in unhappily opened marriages to file!!! shock horror
The study was an online survey, of over 2000 adults, of which about 4 percent had had an open relationship at some point (so about 80 people) the survey doesn't show the exact data, just some aspects of it and conclusions drawn. Weirdly, it doesn't have an exact graph in the survey of how they reached the 92 percent figure, but one assumes there was a question that asked "did your open relationship result in divorce" or "have you ever been divorced" and cross referenced the two, but one would assume if they get a figure of 92 percent, about 70 of those 80 odd people who said they'd at some point been in an open relationship, had also got divorced.
So while I'm going to take that with a grain of salt, it does kinda back up my position that 90 percent of unhappily married people coming in here are looking into poly for the "wrong" reasons.
Pretty much all of the cases and stories I've seen back up that open marriages fail at an extremely high rate. There is no such thing as ethical nonmonogamy when one of the partners is pressured into it and I have made my opinion abudnantly clear that I would never stand for it and the only correct response to your SO asking for poly is to kick them to the gutter. The implications of even asking are dire and usually mean the SO is either already cheating or has someone lined up.
Everyone I know in long term ENM relationships would agree with this.
And as Sonic said, if this 90% failure rate includes the people who tried an open relationship as a last-ditch attempt to save their failing marriage, then of course that will skew the data. That's completely different than couples who go into ENM with full consent and communication.
(EDIT - OP, please read this as a reply to CC. As I'm sure is completely obvious I do get my hackles up a little at intense judgment of difference
I've noticed it. Open relationships/marriages is different though. There is no trust to regain because both agreed and consent to it. Personally if my fiance were to ask for an open relationship or want to share me with other men, it would mean we wouldn't be compatible and he's not as committed as me. I would appreciate him for the honesty but I would let him go.
Life is so complicated indeed and people are so different from each other. Ironically I'll still be 24 on my wedding day (the same age my parents were on their wedding) but obviously don't have the same story of struggle my parents had. I don't even have the same lifestyle as my twin sisters and yet we're a close family. Meanwhile I'm the engaged virgin, one twin sister just gave birth and she's living with her bf and the other twin doesn't want to commit to anyone and just likes dating (she dates but doesn't want any of those guys to be her bf) around for fun. Interesting isn't it...even twins are different too.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,937 posts, read 36,940,305 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
And as Sonic said, if this 90% failure rate includes the people who tried an open relationship as a last-ditch attempt to save their failing marriage, then of course that will skew the data. That's completely different than couples who go into ENM with full consent and communication.
Never mind the ones that never married. My friend S is 47, been with her partner since 22. They started as a triad and then it changed into an ENM relationship. They've dated separate for over 20 years. Own a home. Family. The entire thing. Been working for their entire adult life.
Seen open marriages the same length, but they're not poly.
Last edited by timberline742; 12-13-2022 at 02:37 PM..
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