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speaking as a white middle aged guy who works in Gatineau, lives in Ottawa I can say I dont think Gatineau is any worse than any other area in the region
Not really, in Ottawa, or in other Canadian provinces where I stayed, people are more easily to engage with, and less on guard. Jerks are everywhere all around the world, but I don't see a pattern this rude in general. Maybe it's because anglophone communities are more receptive to immigrants?
I apologize for using the word racist, a term that has been abused and often engenders identity politics. I would more like to find the reason from the aspects of tradition, education or socioeconomic.
Not really, in Ottawa, or in other Canadian provinces where I stayed, people are more easily to engage with, and less on guard. Jerks are everywhere all around the world, but I don't see a pattern this rude in general. Maybe it's because anglophone communities are more receptive to immigrants?
I apologize for using the word racist, a term that has been abused and often engenders identity politics. I would more like to find the reason from the aspects of tradition, education or socioeconomic.
I don't find strangers talk to me any more in Anglo-Canada than they do Quebec.
I mean, I look white but people don't know I am a French speaker just by looking at me.
I suppose things might be different if I did not look European but then again I cannot be sure of that.
I have lived in Quebec and in other parts of Canada and know lots of people and while I definitely know immigrants who prefer to live in Anglo-Canada, I also know many who live in Quebec who like the character and personality of Quebecers better and find people are friendlier here.
..... Perhaps they think people like us tend to cause trouble,....... These people have children themselves, have they ever thought about what if it's their children who have to live through such toxic environment?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurW
....... I don't know about you guys, but it's certainly not the way we behaved towards each other even in my own communist country where people fear and hate each other so bad.
I need some clarification. You mention "People like us" and your communist country of origin but don't say what that is. Exactly what/who contstitutes "people like us" and what country is it that you originally came from and how many countries have you lived in since then? Do ANY of the people in the Gatineau community park know where you came from and have you ever discussed your life in that country and brought up people's behaviour of hate and fear towards each other in that country, or brought up that country's politics / government with any of the people at the park that you might have previously exchanged words with? If so, what was their response or level of interest?
Are there any other social or recreational places that you take your 2 year old to besides that park? Any organized activities with other parents and their children? If so, how do the people at those activities behave towards you? If you have not gotten the child and yourself involved in other activities besides those at the community park, why not?
Personally speaking I don't believe 2 year old children are capable yet of determining what is a toxic environment when they're at a playground with their parents, unless the children are being bullied and beaten up by other children - which parents there wouldn't allow. So obviously your child is not being bullied when you are there with the child and the child is not experiencing toxicity. So I think although the child is the reason you're going to the park, you should leave all the children there (including your own) out of the equation when discussing toxic environments and your own personal adult interactions (or lack of them) with the other adults at the park.
I don't find strangers talk to me any more in Anglo-Canada than they do Quebec.
I mean, I look white but people don't know I am a French speaker just by looking at me.
I suppose things might be different if I did not look European but then again I cannot be sure of that.
I have lived in Quebec and in other parts of Canada and know lots of people and while I definitely know immigrants who prefer to live in Anglo-Canada, I also know many who live in Quebec who like the character and personality of Quebecers better and find people are friendlier here.
As they say "your mileage may vary".
Agreed. Each person's experience is unique and feelings may vary significantly. I just want to know if there is a pattern of consensus regarding the community in large here, as my experience is certainly limited.
So thank you for reaffirming me that it's not particular in Gatineau. Maybe it's just the general mood of society that is deteriorating after the pandemic.
Herein might lie part of the problem. You mention "People like us" and your country of origin. Exactly what/who contstitutes "people like us" and what country is it that you originally came from and how many countries have you lived in since then? Do ANY of the people in the Gatineau community park know where you came from and have you ever discussed your life in that country and brought up people's behaviour towards each other in that country, or brought up that country's politics / government with any of them that you might have previously exchanged words with? If so, what was their response or level of interest?
Are there any other social or recreational places that you take your 2 year old to besides that park? Any organized activities with other parents and their children? If so, how do the people at those activities behave towards you?
Personally speaking I don't believe 2 year old children are capable yet of determining what is a toxic environment when they're at a playground with their parents, unless the children are being bullied and beaten up by other children - which parents there wouldn't allow. So obviously your child is not being bullied when you are there with the child and the child is not experiencing toxicity. So I think although the child is the reason you're going to the park, you should leave all the children there (including your own) out of the equation when discussing toxic environments and your own personal adult interactions (or lack of them) with the other adults at the park.
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Hello Zoisite,
To answer your question:
1.People like us refers to Asian-looking people. After the pandemic these visible minorities are becoming more visible needless to say, and excuse me if I don't want to dig further into identity politics.
2. The comparison with my country of origin which is a communist one, is my own way of gauging social mood and morals, I do not grab people and talk politics in public, and that's surely not the reason I made people feel being annoyed and ignore me. If that's what you are suspecting.
I don't find strangers talk to me any more in Anglo-Canada than they do Quebec.
I mean, I look white but people don't know I am a French speaker just by looking at me.
I suppose things might be different if I did not look European but then again I cannot be sure of that.
I have lived in Quebec and in other parts of Canada and know lots of people and while I definitely know immigrants who prefer to live in Anglo-Canada, I also know many who live in Quebec who like the character and personality of Quebecers better and find people are friendlier here.
As they say "your mileage may vary".
Also I want to point out, and correct me if I'm wrong. when we are talking about immigrants, we should not deny that Francophone people either from Europe or Africa are more "Ã l'aise " and enjoy a higher degree of social acceptance living in quebec, be it daily private life or job market.
Agreed. Each person's experience is unique and feelings may vary significantly. I just want to know if there is a pattern of consensus regarding the community in large here, as my experience is certainly limited.
So thank you for reaffirming me that it's not particular in Gatineau. Maybe it's just the general mood of society that is deteriorating after the pandemic.
Canada has a bit of a "two solitudes" thing going on between francophones and anglophones, and between Quebec and the rest of Canada.
So if you talk to one group they may say negative things about the other. Not everyone does that of course, but it's quite common so if you spend time in one place long enough, you'll definitely hear some of that.
(And often, after a while some immigrants to either place will also talk about the "other Canadians" with those stereotypes too.)
Ultimately, English Canada and French Canada are both perfectly fine places to live. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, and just because you find one of them is more your preference than the other, doesn't mean the other is North Korea or Nazi Germany.
Also I want to point out, and correct me if I'm wrong. when we are talking about immigrants, we should not deny that Francophone people either from Europe or Africa are more "Ã l'aise " and enjoy a higher degree of social acceptance living in quebec, be it daily private life or job market.
So experience may vary, but not for no reason.
Yes, of course. Language abilities greatly facilitate integration into a new country.
This isn't specifically related to origins, and an African from an anglophone country like Nigeria or a lusophone country like Angola will still find it more challenging here than a Brazilian or Argentine who happened to be the star of their French class at university.
Though yes, because of broader trends and life experience, a lot of people in Quebec will generally *expect* that people who look African, Arab or Latin American will speak French, and that people who look East Asian or South Asian will be less likely to speak French.
Though especially today, there are plenty of people who look East Asian or South Asian in Quebec who speak French. But it's still not an automatic expectation that they will, whereas it's pretty much the case for the other three minority groupings.
Hello Zoisite,
To answer your question:
1.People like us refers to Asian-looking people. After the pandemic these visible minorities are becoming more visible needless to say, and excuse me if I don't want to dig further into identity politics.
2. The comparison with my country of origin which is a communist one, is my own way of gauging social mood and morals, I do not grab people and talk politics in public, and that's surely not the reason I made people feel being annoyed and ignore me. If that's what you are suspecting.
Fair enough then. I wasn't suspecting anything, just trying to get a perspective of who you are, where you're from and an idea of what kind of interactions you might be trying to engage newly met people in.
If you have not been ignored in other parts of Canada that you've spent time in but are being ignored by a particular group of white people specifically in that community park in Gatineau then it sounds to me like it's a snobby neighbourhood clique thing with that particular group of people. It's not necessarily a caucasian vs. other race thing thing or a French speaking vs. English speaking thing occurring in all of Gatineau. It's likely just a group of stuck up people who are cliquish and simply aren't interested in knowing you or any other strangers so they are snubbing you.
BTW - Snubbing can happen to anyone and be done by anyone. You just snubbed me and my questions in your above response to me by being evasive and suspicious of me and deflecting my questions. See how easy that was for you to do?
My suggestion is to smile and nod your head to acknowledge their presence at the park and then ignore them and just focus on only having fun with your kid. If your child is being snubbed or stressed out by other toddlers there (which I think is unlikely) then it's time for you to find another community park to visit or get yourselves involved in some community organized parent/child activities.
If you are gauging the social moods and morals of the people in Canada by comparing them with the people in your country of origin and you find the Canadians are coming up short in your estimation then I think you are expecting too much from the Canadians and being a bit suspicious. I think if I became aware that a recent acquaintance from another country was judging me and my social moods and morals and had certain expectations or demands of me based on comparing me with different people in a different country then I likely would not want to associate with that recent acquaintance. I think most people want to be judged, liked and accepted for who they are as individuals, not by being compared to strangers in another country.
I don't think your child is in a toxic environment, I suspect you'll find that things go just fine for your child once the child is enrolled in organized daycare, kindergarten, school, etc. etc. with his/her peer group.
Fair enough then. I wasn't suspecting anything, just trying to get a perspective of who you are, where you're from and an idea of what kind of interactions you might be trying to engage newly met people in.
If you have not been ignored in other parts of Canada that you've spent time in but are being ignored by a particular group of white people specifically in that community park in Gatineau then it sounds to me like it's a snobby neighbourhood clique thing with that particular group of people. It's not necessarily a caucasian vs. other race thing thing or a French speaking vs. English speaking thing occurring in all of Gatineau. It's likely just a group of stuck up people who are cliquish and simply aren't interested in knowing you or any other strangers so they are snubbing you.
BTW - Snubbing can happen to anyone and be done by anyone. You just snubbed me and my questions in your above response to me by being evasive and suspicious of me and deflecting my questions. See how easy that was for you to do?
My suggestion is to smile and nod your head to acknowledge their presence at the park and then ignore them and just focus on only having fun with your kid. If your child is being snubbed or stressed out by other toddlers there (which I think is unlikely) then it's time for you to find another community park to visit or get yourselves involved in some community organized parent/child activities.
If you are gauging the social moods and morals of the people in Canada by comparing them with the people in your country of origin and you find the Canadians are coming up short in your estimation then I think you are expecting too much from the Canadians and being a bit suspicious. I think if I became aware that a recent acquaintance from another country was judging me and my social moods and morals and had certain expectations or demands of me based on comparing me with different people in a different country then I likely would not want to associate with that recent acquaintance. I think most people want to be judged, liked and accepted for who they are as individuals, not by being compared to strangers in another country.
I don't think your child is in a toxic environment, I suspect you'll find that things go just fine for your child once the child is enrolled in organized daycare, kindergarten, school, etc. etc. with his/her peer group.
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Hello Zoisite,
Thank you for your input! This is exactly the motive I put a post here. I seek not to vent my anger or accuse any group. I just want to know from a native's perspective about this phenomenon. As recent immigrants, no matter how hard we learn a language, there are always cultural and psychological factors underlying a phenomenon that are hard to grasp.
I will never judge or gauge any individual I meet in terms of the counterparts from my country of origin. I'm just observing and judging the social mood in general, it's hard not to. Because that's the primary reason I fled my country, where people are always on guard and tend to hate each other so bad. The Canada that I know is a lot better than this. And it will make me very sad should it become so.
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