Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
People who don't want rail are either retired and/or don't have to drive in 1-2 hour traffic to work, maybe they work a few blocks away. They are the NIMBY's that want to block affordable modernized public transportation for people on Oahu just because they don't want to get taxed on it. They don't care of the majority of the population that have to commute to work. This is selfish, and wrong.
People have the misconception that rail is an attempt to take cars off the streets and lessen traffic. This is not its purpose. Rail is a buffer overflow, where, when at some point over the years traffic get so bad, an alternate is there for people to put down their car keys. Without a buffer overflow there IS NO alternative when traffic gets worse and commute gets longer over the years.
What happens when a new development brings in more people and adding more traffic, what alternative is there to keep you from now driving 3 hours instead of 2 hours each way? NOTHING. People may say they can tolerate their 2 hour drive and don't need rail. They are unable to conceptualize and anticipate what will happen to traffic in the future. I work in design and planning in the building industry, I am fortunate in my education and experience to understand the impact of long term planning.
Well imagine what your commute will be in 2014. 3 hours? 4? What about gas $8 $9 a gallon? By then, to think about what to do will be too late, traffic will have a huge impact to cost of living and quality of life.
They don't understand rail won't be built and be in operation tomorrow, it'll take about 5 years to plan, design, and build. If rail isn't moved forward NOW, to be operating in 2014 or 2015 traffic will be 10x worse than in LA.
Here are some uneducated, lame, thoughtless, solutions anti-rail people offer as their "alternatives" and my input of why their solutions won't work:
-Toll booths for zip lanes: only accommodate the rich. People will still drive but now have to pay more to use the the ziplane, but what if many people pay the ziplane and THAT lane now has traffic. "Duh, build 'nother ziplane, duh." Which lead to......
-More roads: This means taking away houses from people to demolish for more roads, which will cost even more to compensate people for what they paid for their homes to relocate. Off ramps will still bottleneck and back up onto the highway. Wait I thought you didn't want rail because it was unslightly and blocked your beautiful views....of the ugly high rises? Now you want additional lanes and multitudes of off ramps, ever seen the spaghetti like weave of off ramps in LA? You want double decker highways?
-Steel on steel is too noisy: So are cars zooming by. So are the sirens. So are the busses. Steel on steel eliminates costly tires which will have to be replaced and replaced costing taxpayers more, constantly.
LOOK:
Gas will still be expensive. Affordable efficient pure electric cars are several years away. Hundreds of millions of dollars will be pumped in to Honolulu by the federal government creating jobs and increasing paychecks. Even if you live nowhere near the planned route, it will extend and branch to other areas eventually, while opening opportunities for more federal money to provide jobs and income looooonnggg term, but it gotta start somewhere. I live in Hawaii Kai, rail isn't being planned here in the immediate plans, but I think we need something started NOW, somewhere, anywhere.
You may say by the time it reaches my neighborhood I'll be retired. Well, if you voted for it, or help backed it when it was proposed 10 or so years ago, you'd be riding it by now.
Last edited by lost_traveler1; 12-17-2011 at 09:13 PM..
People who don't want rail are either retired and/or don't have to drive in 1-2 hour traffic to work, maybe they work a few blocks away. They are the NIMBY's that want to block affordable modernized public transportation for people on Oahu just because they don't want to get taxed on it. They don't care of the majority of the population that have to commute to work. This is selfish, and wrong.
People have the misconception that rail is an attempt to take cars off the streets and lessen traffic. This is not its purpose. Rail is a buffer overflow, where, when at some point over the years traffic get so bad, an alternate is there for people to put down their car keys. Without a buffer overflow there IS NO alternative when traffic gets worse and commute gets longer over the years.
What happens when a new development brings in more people and adding more traffic, what alternative is there to keep you from now driving 3 hours instead of 2 hours each way? NOTHING. People may say they can tolerate their 2 hour drive and don't need rail. They are unable to conceptualize and anticipate what will happen to traffic in the future. I work in design and planning in the building industry, I am fortunate in my education and experience to understand the impact of long term planning.
Well imagine what your commute will be in 2014. 3 hours? 4? What about gas $8 $9 a gallon? By then, to think about what to do will be too late, traffic will have a huge impact to cost of living and quality of life.
They don't understand rail won't be built and be in operation tomorrow, it'll take about 5 years to plan, design, and build. If rail isn't moved forward NOW, to be operating in 2014 or 2015 traffic will be 10x worse than in LA.
Here are some uneducated, lame, thoughtless, solutions anti-rail people offer as their "alternatives" and my input of why their solutions won't work:
-Toll booths for zip lanes: only accommodate the rich. People will still drive but now have to pay more to use the the ziplane, but what if many people pay the ziplane and THAT lane now has traffic. "Duh, build 'nother ziplane, duh." Which lead to......
-More roads: This means taking away houses from people to demolish for more roads, which will cost even more to compensate people for what they paid for their homes to relocate. Off ramps will still bottleneck and back up onto the highway. Wait I thought you didn't want rail because it was unslightly and blocked your beautiful views....of the ugly high rises? Now you want additional lanes and multitudes of off ramps, ever seen the spaghetti like weave of off ramps in LA? You want double decker highways?
-Steel on steel is too noisy: So are cars zooming by. So are the sirens. So are the busses. Steel on steel eliminates costly tires which will have to be replaced and replaced costing taxpayers more, constantly.
LOOK:
Gas will still be expensive. Affordable efficient pure electric cars are several years away. Hundreds of millions of dollars will be pumped in to Honolulu by the federal government creating jobs and increasing paychecks. Even if you live nowhere near the planned route, it will extend and branch to other areas eventually, while opening opportunities for more federal money to provide jobs and income looooonnggg term, but it gotta start somewhere. I live in Hawaii Kai, rail isn't being planned here in the immediate plans, but I think we need something started NOW, somewhere, anywhere.
You may say by the time it reaches my neighborhood I'll be retired. Well, if you voted for it, or help backed it when it was proposed 10 or so years ago, you'd be riding it by now.
Light rail is an excellent idea!! Remember trolleys?? Disregard naysayers and support the logic of rail !!
Whenever I hear the opposition to it, I always assume the people have never been to ASIA, where rail works wonderfully.
The mainland cities are in trouble. They just keep getting more and more traffic congested, and establishing rail is just going to be so much more expensive and so much more difficult in the future. I'm amazed there is so much opposition to it. It's something that almost any developed (and many 3rd world) large cities in the world have, but most mainland u.s. cities do not. Something so basic and essential.
I love that Honolulu is so much more proactive and long-term planning with this. It just makes the city that much better to live in.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 12-18-2011 at 12:01 AM..
It looks great to me; all of the islands need and deserve more public transportation. Owning a personal car involves great cost, both financial and environmental, much more than supporting a rail system.
Any objections or concerns about the future Honolulu Rail Transit system?
Folks have been trying to get a rail transit system established in Honolulu since Neil Blaisdell was mayor back in the 1960s. If and when it's completed, it will probably be as useful as the Metro Rail system in Los Angeles.
The proponents and opponents of a rail transit system in Honolulu both have somewhat valid arguments to support their particular positions. Unfortunately, as soon as Hawaiian burial sites are unearthed along the proposed route, the costs and time to complete it will escalate. It may eventually prove to be just another government boondoggle; however, at least it will provide jobs for some folks in the meantime.
Last edited by Jonah K; 12-18-2011 at 03:00 PM..
Reason: Added link to classic light rail "pro" and "con" arguments...
Is it going to be elevated, eliminating treacherous crossings? Will freight traffic be allowed? The stations seem closely spaced, will there be express trains? I live in a region which has rail lines and these are all concerns.
I'll get blasted for this, but I always thought that a lane dedicated to public transportation would be a good, if perhaps stop gap, solution. If the TheBus could zip along, bypassing those stuck in traffic, I can't imagine that people wouldn't see that as a viable alternative to driving. It pains me to see buses stuck with all the single occupancy vehicles; it would be quite an incentive to know that one could SAVE time taking TheBus. Admittedly I don't often have to deal with the horrible H1 traffic, but I work with plenty who do.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
