Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Me and my girlfriend plan to settle down and are looking at Fort Lee / Leonia NJ for housing (SF or TH). Would like to hear some advice and thoughts on these two towns.
Most important factor to us is commute. I work mid-town and she works downtown, and we currently rent at port imperial which is < 20 mins to midtown by bus ferry. There's chance we might switch job to other areas NYC but at least we don't want to lose too much on commute. Express bus in Leonia has less stops than Fort Lee and there is the coach USA running, which caught my eyes initially. However, I later learnt in Fort Lee there are other ways to commute like bike/carpool across GWB or bus to ferry then mid-town. I feel Leonia could be slightly better but not sure how big the difference would be in rush hours. Happy to hear about experience from someone living there now.
We are also planning to have kids in the next five years and the plan is we stay until the kid finishes middle school then decide whether to move again for high school. I had the impression the Leonia schools are better until I looked at greatschools where Fort Lee schools have slightly better scores. Would anyone know the schools (PK-8 etc.) in the two towns compare to each other?
Also we are curious why Leonia property tax is higher and pro/cons about living in the two towns. Thanks a lot.
Budget: 1$m
Also have looked at below places, happy to hear thoughts on these as well:
Newport/Path: we both lived there pre-covid and moved north bc it's getting a bit over-busy for us
Pal Park: We are Asian but not Koreans. We do hang out in the area for food a lot but feel it's an over-priced market and the schools are not the best.
Rutherford: Not familiar with the area and plan to explore but feel the traffic would be worse than expected if live in the quieter areas in the west.
Edgewater: We are always a bit annoyed about the traffic on river road and even the THs have a very high HOA along the river, which is not what we are looking for.
I feel like I can give some pretty good insight here. We lived in Newport for several years and then bought a house in Fort Lee. We also looked at Leonia and Edgewater.
Once we made the move, my wife commuted by car to the city, while I commuted by car in NJ, as I had done previously anyway. So, as far as buses and such, I cannot speak to that. It sounds like you are not interested in driving, but Fort Lee would be slightly better for that. You get a traffic pass and have access to local designated roads to the GWB which Leonia does not have. Another option is to drive down Route 5 and take a ferry from Edgewater, so Fort Lee is better for that as well.
For the most part, Fort Lee gives you slightly better access to anywhere else you might want to go in NJ, too. Route 4, Route 46, getting to I-80 and the Turnpike...taking you to other places you might frequently find yourself like Paramus, and very importantly, getting North Bergen along Route 1/9 since that is Hudson County and will have shopping on Sundays if you need. So, I think overall placement and convenience is better in Fort Lee.
I would say schools are probably slightly better in Leonia, but it is close, and here is something else to consider. School performance and quality is highly tied to town wealth, and while I think historically Leonia has been wealthier, I believe Fort Lee has been growing and increasing in wealth at a greater pace than Leonia, i.e. it has more "momentum" and "potential upside." I remember when we were looking that it was so commonplace to see old smaller homes being torn down and replaced with larger homes (many were duplexes but not all of them). Leonia had barely any "activity" at all. I think there are a lot of things besides the schools that make Fort Lee more inherently desirable than Leonia, so I think that will continue to have a stronger attraction over time, possibly leading to the schools catching up if they have not done so already. More on this below.
As per why Leonia property tax rates are higher, it is that actually Fort Lee is quite low when compared to surrounding towns in Bergen County, and I think it is for many of the same reasons as to why NYC has such low property tax rates, and that is because in many ways, Fort Lee is a quasi-city. It is rife with all kinds of businesses and commercial establishments, plus huge apartment complexes which house many single people and childless couples not utilizing the school system. That is to say, Fort Lee is diversified and has the ability to share the property tax burden across these different types of buildings, thus able to offer a lower rate vs. Leonia which is almost exclusively single family homes and having far less in terms of other types of properties. Thus, the percentage of buildings housing children utilizing the school system (and schools are like 2/3's of the property tax in NJ) is much higher in Leonia, forcing the property tax rates to be higher. That is also to say, living in Fort Lee is much more enjoyable because it is quite vibrant in terms of cultural offerings, entertainment, restaurants, shopping, the community center which does a bunch of events including outdoors movie nights in the summer, etc. It has a real "sense of place" which Leonia does not have.
As far as the others, you lived in Newport. You know they don't have houses there. You either rent an apartment or buy a condo. Depending on how many children you have, you might eventually find yourself feeling too cramped. And by the time you get to 3-bedroom units anyway, you might as well look at a house in the suburbs because of bang for your buck.
Palisades Park, you are right that the schools are a couple of notches below Fort Lee and Leonia. They are seeing as much of that tear-down activity on homes as Fort Lee is though, which means money is pouring into the town, and it might continue to improve. But it's all so heavily and densely built up there; at least in Fort Lee, you can actually find houses with lawns.
Rutherford is a nice town (as good schools as Leonia if not slightly better, great restaurants and downtown like Fort Lee), but I would be concerned about flooding risks. We did not really explore there because of that; on the other hand, it has something that neither Fort Lee nor Leonia has, and that is an NJ Transit train station.
Lastly, Edgewater I have concern about flooding risks along River Road and the condos down there. Otherwise, the houses are built into cliffs and packed together like sardines like Pal Park. We looked at one townhouse there; parking seemed really crappy. Every time you need to go shopping, you have to go down those hills to River Road or travel up the cliff to Fort Lee or Cliffside Park for something. Seems like a nightmare in the snow or rain, and there have been some rockslides there, too. Also, I believe Edgewater sends kids to Leonia for middle school and high school, so it is less convenient for traveling. Sure, they bus, but what about when you need to go to the school for sports games, plays, concerts, etc. or when the kids want to drive to school every day when they are 17 and have their license?
Winner: Fort Lee (but Rutherford is viable, just stay away from the river to cut down the flood risk, although I would not expect it to completely eliminate it).
I feel like I can give some pretty good insight here. We lived in Newport for several years and then bought a house in Fort Lee. We also looked at Leonia and Edgewater.
Once we made the move, my wife commuted by car to the city, while I commuted by car in NJ, as I had done previously anyway. So, as far as buses and such, I cannot speak to that. It sounds like you are not interested in driving, but Fort Lee would be slightly better for that. You get a traffic pass and have access to local designated roads to the GWB which Leonia does not have. Another option is to drive down Route 5 and take a ferry from Edgewater, so Fort Lee is better for that as well.
For the most part, Fort Lee gives you slightly better access to anywhere else you might want to go in NJ, too. Route 4, Route 46, getting to I-80 and the Turnpike...taking you to other places you might frequently find yourself like Paramus, and very importantly, getting North Bergen along Route 1/9 since that is Hudson County and will have shopping on Sundays if you need. So, I think overall placement and convenience is better in Fort Lee.
I would say schools are probably slightly better in Leonia, but it is close, and here is something else to consider. School performance and quality is highly tied to town wealth, and while I think historically Leonia has been wealthier, I believe Fort Lee has been growing and increasing in wealth at a greater pace than Leonia, i.e. it has more "momentum" and "potential upside." I remember when we were looking that it was so commonplace to see old smaller homes being torn down and replaced with larger homes (many were duplexes but not all of them). Leonia had barely any "activity" at all. I think there are a lot of things besides the schools that make Fort Lee more inherently desirable than Leonia, so I think that will continue to have a stronger attraction over time, possibly leading to the schools catching up if they have not done so already. More on this below.
As per why Leonia property tax rates are higher, it is that actually Fort Lee is quite low when compared to surrounding towns in Bergen County, and I think it is for many of the same reasons as to why NYC has such low property tax rates, and that is because in many ways, Fort Lee is a quasi-city. It is rife with all kinds of businesses and commercial establishments, plus huge apartment complexes which house many single people and childless couples not utilizing the school system. That is to say, Fort Lee is diversified and has the ability to share the property tax burden across these different types of buildings, thus able to offer a lower rate vs. Leonia which is almost exclusively single family homes and having far less in terms of other types of properties. Thus, the percentage of buildings housing children utilizing the school system (and schools are like 2/3's of the property tax in NJ) is much higher in Leonia, forcing the property tax rates to be higher. That is also to say, living in Fort Lee is much more enjoyable because it is quite vibrant in terms of cultural offerings, entertainment, restaurants, shopping, the community center which does a bunch of events including outdoors movie nights in the summer, etc. It has a real "sense of place" which Leonia does not have.
As far as the others, you lived in Newport. You know they don't have houses there. You either rent an apartment or buy a condo. Depending on how many children you have, you might eventually find yourself feeling too cramped. And by the time you get to 3-bedroom units anyway, you might as well look at a house in the suburbs because of bang for your buck.
Palisades Park, you are right that the schools are a couple of notches below Fort Lee and Leonia. They are seeing as much of that tear-down activity on homes as Fort Lee is though, which means money is pouring into the town, and it might continue to improve. But it's all so heavily and densely built up there; at least in Fort Lee, you can actually find houses with lawns.
Rutherford is a nice town (as good schools as Leonia if not slightly better, great restaurants and downtown like Fort Lee), but I would be concerned about flooding risks. We did not really explore there because of that; on the other hand, it has something that neither Fort Lee nor Leonia has, and that is an NJ Transit train station.
Lastly, Edgewater I have concern about flooding risks along River Road and the condos down there. Otherwise, the houses are built into cliffs and packed together like sardines like Pal Park. We looked at one townhouse there; parking seemed really crappy. Every time you need to go shopping, you have to go down those hills to River Road or travel up the cliff to Fort Lee or Cliffside Park for something. Seems like a nightmare in the snow or rain, and there have been some rockslides there, too. Also, I believe Edgewater sends kids to Leonia for middle school and high school, so it is less convenient for traveling. Sure, they bus, but what about when you need to go to the school for sports games, plays, concerts, etc. or when the kids want to drive to school every day when they are 17 and have their license?
Winner: Fort Lee (but Rutherford is viable, just stay away from the river to cut down the flood risk, although I would not expect it to completely eliminate it).
Thanks so much Leps12. Love the comments and insights.
Commute by car: we never seriously considered it because 1)the parking in NYC(and time to park) 2)tolls across GWB. What's the door to door like for your wife? Does she have a parking spot at her work or just park across GWB?
Same for drive to the Edgewater ferry. I checked online and there seems not to be a parking garage like the one in port imperial?
Also nice to know about the traffic pass. I guess it's like a road for only locals with the pass(e.g. time to GWB will still depend on which area in Fort Lee you live and to drive to these roads)? Heard Leonia was also doing something similar and then was on the news..
On schools what's your view on the elementary schools/No.1-4? Seems a lot of recent new listings are in No. 4 school zone and it has a slightly lower score from great schools. Is there any other differences outside of schools in these areas (e.g. I guess the Linwood/No.3 area would be a bit busier and less convenient)？
On Rutherford very good point on the flood. Now looking at the flood map on realtor again seems all the houses on the west side have at least moderate flood risk. On southeast we know there might be flight passing by so there's really limited safe areas I guess. Will keep exploring. (We naturally lean towards the Fort Lee/Leonia/Pal Park area as we at least go there 1-2 times month on the weekends).
On Palisades park again very interesting view on the 'tear-down' activities. It's literally moving on and off our list as from our budget around $1m it just seems will easier for us to get a newer house/TH than Fort Lee (even with the lower tax in Pal park). 12% of houses are built after 2000 in Fort Lee while 30% for Pal park (and for Leonia we probably need to learn how to flip by ourselves . We definitely like the Fort Lee downtown better. which feels nicer and safer, but we also go to Pal park a lot for food.
From investment perspective there are also some considerations. There are 62% renters in Pal Park and 42% in Fort lee, and the avg rent is 3.3k vs 4.3k. It feels like a easier rental maket in Pal Park if we plan to rent it out in like 5-10 years and on the other side more uncertainty in house value appreciation in Fort Lee.
Here the deal breaker would be schools. We have a friend bought a multi-family pre-covid in Pal Park, living there while leasing to others, and moving out later during covid for better schools/areas for family
while leasing the full house out. For us we just feel we probably will stay longer like till our kid finishes middle school especially if the housing market cools down. Education is something we don't want to sacrifice but how bad could it really be in Pal Park...
My wife's commute is atypical. She avoids rush hour. We no longer live in Fort Lee, but when we did, it was like 6 minutes to the GWB and then another 15-20 to her job in Midtown straight down FDR Drive to the parking garage. But you should not take that as a point of reference.
Our house was by School #4, which was held in high regard from everyone we spoke to. We never utilized the schools before we moved, but we know that area and can say you should not be concerned with that school.
If you can afford Fort Lee, I see no reason to look at Palisades Park. Where we were, we were very close to the Palisades Park border (and the Cliffside Park border as well), so we had easy access to the restaurant row there, Shop Rite, other businesses along Bergen Blvd, etc. But even in that area of Fort Lee, you can get a modest single family home with a little bit of yard which is worlds better than the housing stock in Palisades Park.
Just to follow up on the thread: Any one can further comment on the elementary schools (if any recent experience)?
Anna C. Scott Elementary School (Leonia)
vs
Eleanor Van Gelder School (Edgewater)
vs
Fort Lee School No 2 & 3
vs
Fort Lee School No 1 & 4
Seems Edgewater realtors are not allowed to talk about EVG officially not and Fort Lee realtors feel richest population lives in Zone 1&4 so schools are better than 2 & 3. Not sure on ASC though.
Main reason is the commute time form these towns to work (midtown/downtown Manhattan) is almost the max we can take for now. For towns north to rte 4 it really depends on how far you are from the bus / train station and the door to door commute could vary a lot.
Also we are young Asian couple without kids, and actually my wife enjoys a bit more urban feel. So the area makes sense to us (than towns in other counties on the train lines). We had friends in similar situation moved to Oradell and started to regret it's too far from city life very fast.
On school We plan to raise kid in the same town till middle school and then move again so more just looking for an above average education before/till middle school, reason why we are not looking at towns along the PATH line.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. We definitely like the Fort Lee downtown better. which feels nicer and safer, but we also go to Pal park a lot for food. 
