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And, given that this franchise is based on a Disney ride, has (or is) Disney going to change the actual ride as well by presenting a diverse population of pirates to park patrons?
Yes, they have changed the ride to be more "sensitive".
There were never many femaled pirates anywhere at any time in history. That said ... these are stories with ghosts and squid-headed cursed pirates, so we aren't exactly planted firmly in history. So I think you have hit the nail on the head in the need to distinguish between "realistic" (which very few movies are) or "historically accurate" (which none of the PotC movies have ever been or claim to be) and "plausible" (and that is the tricky part).
All stories must be plausible, even Fantasy and Horror and Science Fiction. Once the "rules" of the world have been established, the story needs to operate within them.
So it possible to make a plausible and great movie about a black female pirate? Sure. If you have a writer and director who put the hard work and smarts and artistic talent into the work. But when was the last time Disney did that?
Great argument re: narrative (with which I agree) but I don’t think it applies here.
Firstly, there have been several female pirates throughout history but they were white. Conversely, there have been Black pirates throughout history but they were men.
The initial films in the series were interesting because they were, in fact, historically based: there were many pirates operating in the Caribbean in the 17th and 18th centuries and they were white men. The female characters are mostly bawdy wenches who live in the islands with the exception of the governor’s daughter. Elizabeth Swann’s transformation to pirate is believable because, aside from the narrative that establishes her as unhappy and bored, there were actual female pirates.
And although the series does, indeed, present a lot of fantastical elements to the narratives of each film, even those fantastical elements are believable because they are based on pre-existing lore (cf. ill-gotten gains are cursed, mythical goddess taking the form of an obeah, Kraken, etc.).
Ironically, a black female pirate during the films’ historical period is more far-fetched and unrealistic than any of the fantastical lore that the franchise has presented thus far.
I don't disagree, but as with all things, I am already seeing an over reaction in the other direction. It is pretty obvious to anyone who watches movies that Hollywood in general and Disney very specifically has been pandering to the DEI crowd in very shallow ways for the past several years. I get it.
On the other hand, the anti-"woke" crowd is over-reacting. Any time a project is announced with a non-white woman lead, they are up in arms. They are just as bad as the DEI extremists.
The fact is you can do a great movie with a female lead. I have seen it done. COFFY, STAR WARS, ALIEN, ALIENS, T2, CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON, JACKIE BROWN, KILL BILL, SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, WESTWORLD (TV), ALIAS (TV), and a whole lot of Michelle Yeoh movies.
But for this to work, you have to take the time and effort to develop an interesting character with compelling wants and needs and strengths and weaknesses. You can't just write a Mary Sue and cast a gay black actress and think you are doing the world a favor. You aren't. You're actually hurting your own cause.
I am neither woke nor anti-woke, so I can’t speak for either group. I do, however, think that it is perhaps inaccurate to describe angry reactions to non-white female leads as “anti-woke.”
For example, I am not anti-woke but I was definitely mortified by the casting of Ariel in the live-action The Little Mermaid. Why? Because the story is based on Danish folklore from a time when there would not have been no Black people living in Denmark. Because the casting was so culturally inaccurate, it was clear that Disney was pandering to liberal [U.S.] audiences.
I applaud the questioning of the assumption that mermaids can’t be black, which is ridiculous, as they are fictional creatures, so they can be any color. But the mermaid in the Danish folktale is living in Denmark before 1830 and, therefore, white.
If Disney has simply presented a mermaid story with black merpeople that was not based on a Danish folktale, I don’t think I would have had a problem with it.
It's going to be another Disney megaflop. Yet Disney is firmly committed to the woke agenda.
I've already heard that The Acolyte is a one (season) and done show. Disney is on a course to ruin - instead of making shows and movies that are good, they are deluded in thinking they are making movies and shows that are good for us spreading "the message".
Firstly, there have been several female pirates throughout history but they were white.
Those were outliers, and you know it. Of all thousands of pirates throughout history we know of ... what? Maybe a dozen pirates who were women. They existed now and then, sure, but they were never close to anything approaching the norm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane
The initial films in the series were interesting because they were, in fact, historically based.
"Historically based" might be overstating the case a bit. The setting was ... I guess "inspired by" a real place and point in history. The characters themselves too. But things like curses and ghosts and undead pirates and one guy with a squid head, and the stories are very much Fantasy, not historic fiction.
I get what you're saying. I really do. And you've got a very valid point.
But my point is that if a writer/director wants to come along and do a pirate movie with a black female pirate ... I have no doubt it COULD be great in the hands of a great writer/director. It can be done.
Do I have any optimism that Disney will do that. Any optimism at all? How much?
Those were outliers, and you know it. Of all thousands of pirates throughout history we know of ... what? Maybe a dozen pirates who were women. They existed now and then, sure, but they were never close to anything approaching the norm.
"Historically based" might be overstating the case a bit. The setting was ... I guess "inspired by" a real place and point in history. The characters themselves too. But things like curses and ghosts and undead pirates and one guy with a squid head, and the stories are very much Fantasy, not historic fiction.
I get what you're saying. I really do. And you've got a very valid point.
But my point is that if a writer/director wants to come along and do a pirate movie with a black female pirate ... I have no doubt it COULD be great in the hands of a great writer/director. It can be done.
Do I have any optimism that Disney will do that. Any optimism at all? How much?
And I think that the franchise presented Elizabeth Swann as an outlier as well, which is why her narrative is believable. The minute they introduced Penelope Cruz’s character was the moment I rolled my eyes and checked out of the franchise.
I agree that the franchise can have a Black female pirate if they present it in a believable manner. For example, if they present her as a runaway slave who becomes a pirate, I think I would buy that. But that’s pretty much the only storyline that is believable to me. However, Disney won’t go that route because, even though it is the narrative that makes the most sense for the place and time period, they’re not going to make a film with a slave in it because Disney is just hell bent on casting black actors in roles based on white characters. It’s the Disney version of reparations.
In fact, Edibiri is going to play a pirate named Anne, who is based on the real-life white female Irish pirate Anne Bonny. Because, in the Disneyverse, when history/reality doesn’t align with your world vision, you just bulldoze over it and create your own world, especially when it means you can then brag about “creating opportunities for women of color.”
But I get it. “Forget it, Starla. It’s Disneytown.”
In fact, Edibiri is going to play a pirate named Anne, who is based on the real-life white female Irish pirate Anne Bonny. Because, in the Disneyverse, when history/reality doesn’t align with your world vision, you just bulldoze over it and create your own world, especially when it means you can then brag about “creating opportunities for women of color.”
But it is a business decision for Disney. Ayo Edebiri is a hot commodity on the heels of all of her awards for The Bear this year. And as an actress and writer herself (she wrote and produced What We Do In the Shadows) she's not going to want to play a character that's not a badass in this franchise. I hope they do well with it. I just don't think complaining about wokeness in regards to a supernatural pirate movie is the way to go.
But it is a business decision for Disney. Ayo Edebiri is a hot commodity on the heels of all of her awards for The Bear this year. And as an actress and writer herself (she wrote and produced What We Do In the Shadows) she's not going to want to play a character that's not a badass in this franchise. I hope they do well with it. I just don't think complaining about wokeness in regards to a supernatural pirate movie is the way to go.
Everything that you wrote is what I believe is wrong with filmmaking these days. There is zero integrity, it’s all about who’s “hot” right now, what will “generate the most buzz” and what will pander to the most “influencers.”
I respect Edibiri as an actress (or, at least, I used to) and am therefore disappointed that this is what she has chosen for her next project. I won’t be watching.
And I disagree that complaining about wokeness in film doesn’t matter, especially when it’s Disney, which is an influential company.
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Of all thousands of pirates throughout history we know of ... what? Maybe a dozen pirates who were women. They existed now and then, sure, but they were never close to anything approaching the norm. 
