08-17-2023, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TRex2
Well, I am not in MO, so it isn't high on my priorities list (but the forum needs some traffic
).
The first step for this "initiative" (referendum) is to gain a few thousand (I think it will need more than 40,000) signatures. That can put it on the ballot. Not sure how this "three versions" thing goes. I suspect they will have to focus on one of the three.
The process (according to the MO constitution) takes a few months.
(Who is "MFC" ? )
MFC is Missouri Firearms Coalition, a pro gun group.
I believe based on last census it would need around 179k sigs from 6 of 8 district total. Meaning those 6 of 8 districts there is a certain amount required from each district from registered voters.
That Clean Missouri BS backed by Soros got something like over 300k sigs so good chance they get them easily.
08-18-2023, 07:42 AM
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOforthewin
MFC is Missouri Firearms Coalition, a pro gun group.
OK, that isn't the numbers I got, but I will accept your numbers, because I wasn't trying very hard
I am supposed to be retiring from the intel work I used to do
Here are a couple sites you may find very useful:
https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_measure
https://ballotpedia.org/Missouri (middle column has a link to "ballot measures" )
https://www.discoverthenetworks.org/ (basically, a wikipedia of leftist people and organizations )
08-18-2023, 08:46 PM
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The ballot summary just posted!authorize ordinances which allow for the seizure of firearms by law enforcement under certain circumstances; and
08-19-2023, 09:00 AM
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
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As you said, before, there are three different versions of this initiative. (114, 115 and 117)
Your post shows the title, not the actual language to be altered, in the MO Constitution, if passed.
The status of the petition can be found here, as well as the full text of the petition.
https://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/petitions/2024
I looked at all three, and they look the same to me, but I didn't go through, word by word.
They now have to get all of those signatures. As I read it, they need all of those (you said) 179k signatures on Any One Of The Three versions. Not a total of 179k on all three. (Seems to me, they are shooting themselves in the foot, on this.)
Petition Process Handbook can be found on this page:
https://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/petitions
08-19-2023, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TRex2
As you said, before, there are three different versions of this initiative. (114, 115 and 117)
Your post shows the title, not the actual language to be altered, in the MO Constitution, if passed.
The status of the petition can be found here, as well as the full text of the petition.
https://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/petitions/2024
I looked at all three, and they look the same to me, but I didn't go through, word by word.
They now have to get all of those signatures. As I read it, they need all of those (you said) 179k signatures on Any One Of The Three versions. Not a total of 179k on all three. (Seems to me, they are shooting themselves in the foot, on this.)
Petition Process Handbook can be found on this page:
https://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/petitions
The reason why they have 3 versions is they're supposed to do "polling" and see which one is the most popular and will then go and collect sigs for it. It's approved to circulate but doesn't mean they have to collect sigs yet. I imagine that starts late fall. Then, whichever one they favor they will pull the other two. They have to power to pull it.
08-19-2023, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOforthewin
The reason why they have 3 versions is they're supposed to do "polling" and see which one is the most popular and will then go and collect sigs for it. It's approved to circulate but doesn't mean they have to collect sigs yet. I imagine that starts late fall. Then, whichever one they favor they will pull the other two. They have to power to pull it.
Don't you think that any version will be found unconstitutional?
08-19-2023, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Floorist
Don't you think that any version will be found unconstitutional?
Of course it "should be" if taken to court.
Here is the thing. UNsensibleMO's 3 versions LEAVES the current section 1, article 23 intact! A number of parts of it protects against UNsensibleMO's proposals. So even if it DID somehow small chance passed it would be violating the state of MO constitution and also possibly US constitution. Of course if tiny chance US Supreme Court heard the case and rules against the anti gunners it would be a HUGE victory in the United States, bigger than abortion Roe vs Wade. Would make most anti gun laws unconstitutional.
UNSensibleMO's three proposals violates the MO constitution. In order for it NOT to they would have to also rewrite section 23 altogether which they didn't in their three proposals. Also means AG Bailey, and SOS Ash croft are not doing their jobs according to the MO constitution by allowing this to go forward. Their proposal clearly infringes on the rights of Missourians.
This would likely be nixed in Cole County court if there is a suit and probably would be heard by the MO Supreme Court. Hopefully the AG would fail to defend the law if passed.
From what I understand someone already has a lawsuit in the works against UNsensibleMO.
I Section 23. Right to keep and bear arms, ammunition, and certain accessories — exception —
rights to be unalienable. — That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms, ammunition, and accessories typical to the normal function of such arms, in defense of his home, person, family and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned . The rights guaranteed by this section shall be unalienable. Any restriction on these rights shall be subject to strict scrutiny and the
state of Missouri shall be obligated to uphold these rights and shall under no circumstances decline to protect against their infringement . Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the general assembly from enacting general laws which limit the rights of convicted violent felons or those adjudicated by a court to be a danger to self or others as result of a mental disorder or mental infirmity.
08-19-2023, 06:16 PM
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOforthewin
...
I don't think Cole County would hear the case, since the change only effects the greater StL area and greater KC MO area. In fact, it only has effect in about four jurisdictions inside those.
The "not as bad" news is that this amendment is extremely limited in scope.
The bad news is, that may tempt the courts to overlook the unconstitutionality of it.
Quote:
From what I understand someone already has a lawsuit in the works against UNsensibleMO.
Well, we can hope for the best.
You nicknamed them correctly.
Nothing on their web page makes any sense.
08-19-2023, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TRex2
I don't think Cole County would hear the case, since the change only effects the greater StL area and greater KC MO area. In fact, it only has effect in about four jurisdictions inside those.
it all depends. The proposed referendum though is filed in Jefferson City and the secretary of state. If you're suing questioning it being put on the ballots or questioning it as constitutional after it passes falls within Cole County courts then. That's how lawsuits work regarding ballot initiative issues such as the recent abortion one they're trying to get on the ballot, or 2014 when the challenged the current right to bear arms amendment. Those suits are Cole County.
Now, lets say it passes and someone is arrested or given a citation for an ordinance violation after it becomes statue then they would file the suit within their county.
It doesn't matter if it only affects Stl. It's still a ballot initiative and depending on which stage it's in it falls within Cole County.
The one UNSensibleMO is pushing for is the one where state wide any county or city can make up their own gun laws.
It's pretty stupid because if it passed and The Loo went hog wild passing all sorts of crazy gun laws it could really cost the city multi millions. It would be going to Federal Court and opens up a mega Pandora's Box for the US Supreme COurt. It would actually be nice if the ACLU did the rigth thing and you ended up with hundreds of suits from people getting busted in St. Louis, especially if they're african american and can use racial biased too. You'd see them repealing their dumb ordinances.
The liberals wouldn't want this in US Supreme Court with a 6-3 majority and basically would void most local gun laws.
It doesn't take a lawyer to look at the MO Constitution and to see this violates it in a number of areas.
If you go the federal route you can look at Chicago, DC and New York as recent examples on why they'd lose.
08-20-2023, 04:21 AM
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOforthewin
it all depends. The proposed referendum though is filed in Jefferson City and the secretary of state. If you're suing questioning it being put on the ballots or questioning it as constitutional after it passes falls within Cole County courts then. That's how lawsuits work regarding ballot initiative issues such as the recent abortion one they're trying to get on the ballot, or 2014 when the challenged the current right to bear arms amendment. Those suits are Cole County.
OK, I see.
Quote:
The one UNSensibleMO is pushing for is the one where state wide any county or city can make up their own gun laws.
I took a closer look, and you are right.
version 114 only affects two counties and two cities
version 115 affects any county
version 117 removes "transfer" of firearms from the language.
Quote:
...
You are right, it doesn't take a lawyer to see that the language is fouled up, and it would make section 23 "self contradicting."
Crazy thing is, it would have been easy for them to avoid that pitfall.
Please register City-data.com
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Median household income ($)
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Household income diversity
Ratio of average income to average house value (%)
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Air pollution - Air Quality Index (AQI)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Industry diversity
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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