Is the ‘Midwesternness’ of Northern Missouri overstated? (Kansas City, St. Louis: neighborhoods, law school)

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by Doughboy1918

Out of curiosity, what kind of accent do people in the southwestern Chicago suburbs such as Joliet and Aurora speak with? Is it typical of Inland Northern/Great Lakes with the distinctive flat A sound and where block sounds like black, or is it closer to General American/Midlands? I just wondered because this region seems kind of different from the rest of Chicagoland due to it having so many interstates and highways running through it.

Northern cities accent dominates this area as well. This accent carries on south of I-80 (to around that just south of Kankakee line I mentioned) and even influences accents along many parts of the I-55 corridor all the way to St. Louis. For example, many Springfield, IL speakers have a lot of northern cities influences in their accents.

Many dialect maps have understated the dominance of the northern cities accent in this region.

[Doughboy1918]

Originally Posted by rrampage

Northern cities accent dominates this area as well. This accent carries on south of I-80 (to around that just south of Kankakee line I mentioned) and even influences accents along many parts of the I-55 corridor all the way to St. Louis. For example, many Springfield, IL speakers have a lot of northern cities influences in their accents.

Many dialect maps have understated the dominance of the northern cities accent in this region.

Really? I can imagine this being the case for older generations, but is it the same for millennials and Gen Z? The southwest Chicago suburbs are a very fast-growing region, having received many transplants from across the country as well as Mexico. Surely has there not been any sort of reversal in the northern city vowel shift anywhere in Chicagoland?

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by Doughboy1918

Really? I can imagine this being the case for older generations, but is it the same for millennials and Gen Z? The southwest Chicago suburbs are a very fast-growing region, having received many transplants from across the country as well as Mexico. Surely has there not been any sort of reversal in the northern city vowel shift anywhere in Chicagoland?

It does include the older generations as well. Though, that northern cities influence along the I-55 corridor to St. Louis (south of that just below Kankakee line) does seem to be more of a modern one.

If you do get further out west of the metro area towards I-39, you will be crossing into a general inland North variety of accent. Which to me, sounds like a small dash of slightly Minnesota and Canadian to me.

[Doughboy1918]

Originally Posted by rrampage

It does include the older generations as well. Though, that northern cities influence along the I-55 corridor to St. Louis (south of that just below Kankakee line) does seem to be more of a modern one.

If you do get further out west of the metro area towards I-39, you will be crossing into a general inland North variety of accent. Which to me, sounds like a small dash of slightly Minnesota and Canadian to me.

I meant do younger people in the Chicago suburbs speak the Great Lakes accent as strongly as older generations who are native to the area?

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by Doughboy1918

I meant do younger people in the Chicago suburbs speak the Great Lakes accent as strongly as older generations who are native to the area?

The northern cities accent has held up incredibly well to the younger generations. It's only when you leave the metro area, that you are even aware of it. You will stick out like a sore thumb for sure when you visit many areas further south (like Gibson City).

[Doughboy1918]

Originally Posted by rrampage

The northern cities accent has held up incredibly well to the younger generations. It's only when you leave the metro area, that you are even aware of it. You will stick out like a sore thumb for sure when you visit many areas further south (like Gibson City).

Interesting. I’d have thought there’d been some kind of transition to a more General American sound due to the mass amount of transplants from across the country moving to the area as of recent decades.

This is a video about a high school in Joliet, IL. Do you think the younger speakers sound more Great Lakes or General American?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0A9CKg...wgaGlnaCBuZXdz

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by Doughboy1918

Interesting. I’d have thought there’d been some kind of transition to a more General American sound due to the mass amount of transplants from across the country moving to the area as of recent decades.

This is a video about a high school in Joliet, IL. Do you think the younger speakers sound more Great Lakes or General American?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0A9CKg...wgaGlnaCBuZXdz

Some speakers sound more northern cities while others wouldn't fall under that category. Transplants have always been in the area, but their influence on the area's accent is mute. Not everyone will sound the same in a given metro area. But the northern cities accent dominates this area and this accent has influence well beyond it.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by rrampage

Growing up in Chicagoland, we considered people who lived south of an east-west line from just below Kankakee (with the Northern Midlands accents) to have southern accents. It was basically where the south began to us.

Direction perception means a lot. You are right about that.

A lot of Oklahoma accents seem quite subtle to me.

That's because Oklahoma isn't really a fully southern state. It's a lot of great plains mixed in. Same with Southwest Missouri near NE OK. Quasi southern but it has influences from Northeast Oklahoma and far southern Kansas.

That whole area of Northwest arkansas, Far southwest Missouri, and NE Oklahoma has plains influences in it.

I wouldn't expect someone from Oklahoma to sound southern like the Missouri Bootheel for example.

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

That's because Oklahoma isn't really a fully southern state. It's a lot of great plains mixed in. Same with Southwest Missouri near NE OK. Quasi southern but it has influences from Northeast Oklahoma and far southern Kansas.

That whole area of Northwest arkansas, Far southwest Missouri, and NE Oklahoma has plains influences in it.

I wouldn't expect someone from Oklahoma to sound southern like the Missouri Bootheel for example.

Yes, you are correct. Different accent influences there.

Even northern cities accents have their own distinctness. I always thought the Cleveland variety sounded a bit more northeast U.S.-like. Of course, I know that Chicago is located further west, so that would make sense.

Also, found that a lot of Detroit area speakers sounded more Western U.S.-like, for some reason.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

I don't care what some fella from South Dakota says about northern Missouri. It's been nothin' but a bunch of Yankees since they killed Bloody Bill and Jessie, Billy Quantrill and them Younger boys.

Seriously though, I think maybe northern Mo is influenced by which direction you are perceiving it from. As an Oklahoman I would probably hear a bit more of a northern accent. Conversely, somebody from north of the area would hear some southern come through.

But it's really weird. Moved out west for a while and I could hear people's Okie accent when I came back to Oklahoma to visit. Then I moved to north Florida where it is very southern. I could no longer hear the Okie accent when I visited because the southern accent was so much stronger.

To this day though somebody like Reba McIntyre sounds horribly southern and hickish to me even by Oklahoma standards. But living in OK again I don't hear the typical accent as well.

What part of Northern FL? Rural places in northern FL by GA, AL you will still hear southern accents, but it's a small portion now since the state has grown so much. South of Gainesville hardly ever hear it. Reason being is until the 1940s hardly anyone lived in the southern half of the state and the ones who moved there were mostly from the north. Always been yankees in this part of FL.

Heck, I would say Oklahoma and Missouri as a whole in modern times have more southern influences than Florida has. The parts of Missouri that are transition zone or fully Dixie are larger than the parts of FL that are still southern overall square miles wise. Only time I ever hear a southern accent in SW, South FL is if it's an older southerner visiting and even that is EXTREMELY rare. Even southerners don't have an accent much anymore and if they do it really sticks out around here.

In this region here in FL an old time native to Branson area or Sikeston, Hayti would totally stick out around here with the Ozark accent on delta accent.

Last time I visited Branson right before "season" when I was living in St. Louis still I totally stuck out. was amazed how much Southern accents I heard down in Branson.