Is the ‘Midwesternness’ of Northern Missouri overstated?

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by jmgg

I think this is a good point. Somewhat the same values and beliefs, but more intense in states like Missouri and Arkansas.

Evangelicals, such as southern Baptist, and conservative methodist, Lutherans in some cases too.

Plus, states like Missouri are deep red. Many of the reps and senators are in safe districts that have counties that vote like 82 percent Trump in the last election. Many of those seats don't even had a democrat running so no worries about losing any moderate voters.

But yea, even states that have swinged more Republican like Ohio they're still not as extreme like in rural Missouri or Oklahoma for example.

The ones from southern Missouri especially.

[MOforthewin]

I think Iron County is a great example of a county that's borderline in the transition zone and fully southern zone in the Ozarks. Demographics it leans southern for sure. At the local level it still elects some democrats too. parts of southeast MO still elect democrats at the local county and city level, southwest MO all republican mostly at the local level. This goes back to the split during the civil war in that area. The counties to the south around Iron county were hardline confederate like Oregon and Ripley Counties for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_County,_Missouri

[Chesterton]

Forget politics for a moment and think linguistics. Moved here from Illinois last year and I was expecting people to have legit Southern accents with that drawl.

For the most part, very few people have them. Maybe it's because we live in Springfield, but still. 90% of the time I noticed the accent comes from someone who is from and/or lives in Arkansas.

Usually a southern drawl is how I immediately assume an area in the "Midwest" is Midwest or starting to feel like the South.

The other thing that comes to mind is that most of our drives back and forth between NW Illinois suburbs and Springfield MO feel like the same area for like 75% of the drive.

Really only changes once you get into the Ozarks because of the terrain or the suburbs of NW Illinois where that population density starts to impact you traffic wise.

[Doughboy1918]

Originally Posted by Chesterton

Forget politics for a moment and think linguistics. Moved here from Illinois last year and I was expecting people to have legit Southern accents with that drawl.

For the most part, very few people have them. Maybe it's because we live in Springfield, but still. 90% of the time I noticed the accent comes from someone who is from and/or lives in Arkansas.

Usually a southern drawl is how I immediately assume an area in the "Midwest" is Midwest or starting to feel like the South.

The other thing that comes to mind is that most of our drives back and forth between NW Illinois suburbs and Springfield MO feel like the same area for like 75% of the drive.

Really only changes once you get into the Ozarks because of the terrain or the suburbs of NW Illinois where that population density starts to impact you traffic wise.

Where in northwest Illinois are you talking about? Because there's no real large suburban area near there beside maybe Rock Island/Moline.

Also, Springfield, MO and pretty much all of Missouri, except maybe St. Louis and St. Joseph, speak with what's called a 'South Midland' accent, meaning there's no drawl and most of the primary linguistic patterns are generally typical of American speech, but where words ending in 'en' are pronounced as 'in', a secoundary southern characteristic. President Truman (a native of Independence, near Kansas City) I think, is a fine example here;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuLHJzDINP8

[SunGrins]

Originally Posted by Doughboy1918

Also, Springfield, MO and pretty much all of Missouri, except maybe St. Louis and St. Joseph, speak with what's called a 'South Midland' accent, meaning there's no drawl...

I think you are mostly right on this assessment although there are some internal variations. You seldom hear a pure southern drawl come out of a native Missourian unless you are somewhere near Caruthersville or New Madrid. Harry Truman was born in Barton County but raised in Jackson County before it was mostly paved and infiltrated by non-natives. There is a distinctive Kansas City version that I can discern among women but not men. St. Louis has its own accent that I could never appreciate until I moved away and now can spot it after hearing a few words of a conversation.

The following clip is from a campaign debate between Mel Carnahan (from Shannon and Carter Counties in the Ozarks) and William Webster (from Carthage, Jasper County, near Oklahoma). Neither man speaks with a real drawl, and you can hear traces of Harry Truman, especially in Carnahan's speaking. Carnahan speaks first.

https://youtu.be/aObX5O6yzSI?si=4vOTqXqF90Ouuzsl


Curiously, Carnahan served two terms as Governor and was killed in a campaign plane crash but, though dead, went on to defeat former Governor John Ash-croft in a Senate election. Mrs. Carnahan was appointed to fill the Senate seat pending a special election. Bill Webster served as Attorney General but later served a two-year prison term for conspiracy and embezzlement.

[SciFiNerd1]

Northern Missouri is definitely Midwestern. I don't think it is overstated.

[Okey Dokie]

Originally Posted by Doughboy1918

Where in northwest Illinois are you talking about? Because there's no real large suburban area near there beside maybe Rock Island/Moline.

They are referring to the suburbs NW of Chicago, not in NW Illinois.

[SnazzyB]

Originally Posted by SunGrins

I think you are mostly right on this assessment although there are some internal variations. You seldom hear a pure southern drawl come out of a native Missourian unless you are somewhere near Caruthersville or New Madrid. Harry Truman was born in Barton County but raised in Jackson County before it was mostly paved and infiltrated by non-natives. There is a distinctive Kansas City version that I can discern among women but not men. St. Louis has its own accent that I could never appreciate until I moved away and now can spot it after hearing a few words of a conversation.

The following clip is from a campaign debate between Mel Carnahan (from Shannon and Carter Counties in the Ozarks) and William Webster (from Carthage, Jasper County, near Oklahoma). Neither man speaks with a real drawl, and you can hear traces of Harry Truman, especially in Carnahan's speaking. Carnahan speaks first.

https://youtu.be/aObX5O6yzSI?si=4vOTqXqF90Ouuzsl


Curiously, Carnahan served two terms as Governor and was killed in a campaign plane crash but, though dead, went on to defeat former Governor John Ash-croft in a Senate election. Mrs. Carnahan was appointed to fill the Senate seat pending a special election. Bill Webster served as Attorney General but later served a two-year prison term for conspiracy and embezzlement.

I would call those 'country' accents.

[mjtinmemphis]

When I relocated back to St. Louis after being away for some time, I thought I noticed southern accents in south St. Louis county. There is a difference between what I hear in Melville and Little Rock.

Culturally, there are no similarities in St. Louis with the south until you get about 50 to 75 miles outside of the 270 loop. There seems to be a transition zone between St. Genevieve and Sikeston. After Sikeston is where you get more into the southern roots culturally.

When I lived in Chicago, some would claim St. Louis seemed southern but they where getting southern confused with slower paced living. Not all parts of the "North" is fast paced just as not all of the "South" is slow.

[SonySegaTendo617]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

I go by square miles here, not by cities. If so you could argue georgia doesn't have much of one left because most of the state lives in the atl area and transplants from up north and a good chunk of the population lives in atl metro.

Square miles wise mo has a large chunk in the modern southern dialect zone than florida does now.

Also, mo politics resemble the south, not midwest as much. Southern baptist wield influence. You dont see this in any other midwest state.

Traditionally Missouri politics has had Democrat governors, that did do the best they could to veto hard right Republican bills. I know there aren't many blue areas, except near St. Louis, KC, and Columbia. I think in Ohio the Democrats provide more counterbalance, vs. Republicans. Plus that rural voters in Missouri more tilt that state right, versus how much tilt rural voters do with the vote in Ohio.

Let's also remember that Missouri has a state referendum system, that does help with passing laws that MO state legislature and governor Republicans wouldn't pass on their own(fully legal pot, higher state minimum wage, etc). Such a system also helps Ohio too, i.e. the fact they recently voted to protect abortion rights in their constitution after Roe vs. Wade was overturned.