Bannister Mall project is back... (Independence, Lee's Summit: sales, crime, houses) - Kansas City - Missouri (MO) - City-Data Forum

kcmo · 03-03-2011, 07:50 AM

New $590 million plan emerges to redevelop Bannister Mall site - KansasCity.com (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/03/02/2694881/new-bannister-mall-redevelopment.html#disqus_thread - broken link)

First off it's once again so sad to read the comments which are the typical anti kcmo smack with a very joco bias. Can these people that hate kcmo so much just move on and find something else to do? Go watch a KU basketball game on the dvr or something. Good lord.

Having said that.

This project needs to go back to the drawing board. If all they plan to do is put back big box retail that will be heavily subsidized, then may as well just leave it empty land. You are accomplishing very little.

First off, contrary to popular belief, this area is not crime ridden ghetto. There are tens of thousands of homes in SKC and many of those people have lived there for decades and many of the people moving in are simply people that can't afford or don't want to over extend themselves by going to the outer suburbs. These people work in JoCo or Downtown, they have kids, families etc. They are people just like the people in Lenexa and to constantly be called thugs just because they live within 5 miles of Bannister Mall is just terrible and insulting. They don't like the instances of crime that has occurred there any more than any body else, that's why they want to see redevelopment rather than so much effort to develop far flung greenfields like Village West and Adams Dairy. At least many of them are tyring to fix the problem rather than running off to the outer burbs where problems like this can be ignored.

It's a modest area that deserves and could support re-established retail. It just can no longer support a regional super mall and power center of 3 million sq feet of retail. That's why retail can and will work there in a new development.

But the new development needs to be mixed use. It has got to have a large residential component. It doesn't make any sense to put a commuter train station between a Kohls and a Lowes. Retail needs to be a part of the project and something like an IKEA would be ideal to generate interest and sales taxes to help build out the more important parts of the project. Residential.

This would be a perfect location for an infill new urbanism project like Stapelton in Denver. It could include a new elementary school, a local grocer, a new park, the commuter rail station, row houses along with retail and office development all in a walkable, transit oriented development.

The infrastructure is there. The visibility is there.

But KC developers and area urban planners have got to get out of the 80's and get away from the big boxes and giant parking lot dominated developments. Developments like that only last about a decade before they begin their fall into blight and abandonment. The Bannister Mall site would be right back where it is today if all they build is retail.

But then again, till the KC area can overcome its terrible racial problems, I don't see much of anything positive happing at the Bannister site or really any other location that is not in a field 20 miles from downtown.

The metro would rather just do nothing and even enjoy watching a huge section of the city turn into the ghetto they perceive it already is from their safe little havens in the perfect suburbs.

shindig · 03-03-2011, 08:03 AM

IKEA would be perfect for that area. That's the only big box store needed.

TheSportsMachine · 03-03-2011, 08:09 AM

Didn't they just tear down big box retail buildings on that site?

kcmo · 03-03-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shindig

IKEA would be perfect for that area. That's the only big box store needed.

Yes it would, but SKC is now a very large undeserved area. Retail needs to be a part of the project including big box retail.

It's HOW it's built that is the problem.

Put IKEA off to the side and it will be the retail pull and sales tax generator for the super tiff (which is needed to build the rest of the project).

Other retail needs to be TOD though. We have a redevelopment a couple of miles from our home here that replaced blight in a similar demographic neighborhood as Bannister.

One of the anchors is a Target. But it's a two story target built around a parking structure. The Target is fully built up against the sidewalks and into a walkable new retail and residential development.

kcmo · 03-03-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSportsMachine

Didn't they just tear down big box retail buildings on that site?

Right and if they put the new buildings up just like the old ones were, that would be a major fail.

Again, that area can support general local retail on a smaller scale than the 2-3 million sq ft of bannister mall and benjamin plaza. IKEA is totally stand alone and does not need any other retail. It's its own draw, nor would it really help other retail as people going to IKEA are not going to shop at the Target nearby. IKEA would draw people to the area to pay sales taxes to help build out the rest of the project. Target and other retailers would serve local residents that now have to go to Lee's Summit, Cass County, Independence or Kansas.

But if it's just going to be a another strip of big and medium boxes and a sea of parking along 435, forget it. May as well do nothing.

The project must be mixed use, it must be a transit oriented development and it must have a large residential component as well as well designed green space and shared space (walking trails, dog park etc) and it must be large enough to be able to "rebrand" the area's image.

This is what incentives like STAR bonds should be reserved for.

pioneer88 · 03-03-2011, 08:35 AM

I'd love to see this area revitalized, but it seems to me new urbanism projects are usually overpriced for this area. On the other hand, If they did a cheaper version then they run the risk of having it be "crappy" and noone wanting to live there. I have a friend who lives off of bannister in a pretty cool wooded subdivision. The problem is it also seems isolated and very rural/industrial. Now, I can't say that I'm familiar with the entire bannister area but all the areas I've spent time in seem to struggle. I guess what I'm saying is... with so much housing available in the metro it would have to be an amazing quality and amazing deal at the same time for people to flock to the area I would guess.

kcmo · 03-03-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pioneer88

I'd love to see this area revitalized, but it seems to me new urbanism projects are usually overpriced for this area. On the other hand, If they did a cheaper version then they run the risk of having it be "crappy" and noone wanting to live there. I have a friend who lives off of bannister in a pretty cool wooded subdivision. The problem is it also seems isolated and very rural/industrial. Now, I can't say that I'm familiar with the entire bannister area but all the areas I've spent time in seem to struggle. I guess what I'm saying is... with so much housing available in the metro it would have to be an amazing quality and amazing deal at the same time for people to flock to the area I would guess.

Well, metro KC does not have any large new urbanism developments. There are a few traditional subdivisions and a few of them have a little bit of retail (longview farms). But they are in far flung suburbs surrounded by typical sprawl with no transit etc. They are small islands of overpriced "brookside" homes in the middle of nowhere connected to nothing via nothing.

This area could build out into a true infill new urbansim development.

It would not be easy to do, but it could be done.

As far as IKEA, they go just about anywhere. Upscale suburban areas, blightened redevelopment projects, even industrial areas. Sure they would go there. The bigger issue is will they come to KC at all and if they do, will they go to some star bonded project along K-7 in some field or will they be a part of a far more important and influential project like bannister. That I can't answer, but they do both.

aragx6 · 03-03-2011, 08:49 AM

I don't see any reason that new urbanism projects would be more expensive than traditional subdivisions. If anything, the cost to build would probably be lower as utility placement, etc. is more streamlined.

kcmo · 03-03-2011, 08:58 AM

This is a full blown new urbanism infill project:

Google Maps

RjRobb2 · 03-03-2011, 09:17 AM

Last I heard, IKEA had no plans to enter the KC market. Entering a new market is a big deal and long process for a multi-national corporation like IKEA. It isnt as easy as just opening a store. There is a year or more of planning that goes into that as they have to do market research. Once they made the decision to enter the market, the store probably wouldnt actually open for at least 2 years.

If IKEA were to come, I doubt it would be this project. I think it would be either JoCo, Liberty, Lee's Summit, or I-29 & Barry Rd.