Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-26-2023, 08:00 AM
 
4,022 posts, read 1,874,326 times
Reputation: 8647

Advertisements

It's the "good enough" trend. Or maybe aural evolution of the human ear. We can argue the merits of vinyl vs digital if you wish - but there is no such argument between today's most common listening experience - XM radio or other compressed service - and CD/Vinyl. They (XM etc) suck. No contest.

But that's what folks hear and know these days. If you doubt they suck, switch back and forth between your XM and a local FM music station. The difference in your car is (or should be) astounding. But if you - regularly - hear no difference - then count yourself among the growing portion of the population unable to hear the difference.
If you've ever heard a good sound system - a system that reproduces a recording at the closest thing possible to the way the engineer heard it in the studio - then everything else will just...sound weak. Oh, it's fine for driving and singing and having some fun or dancing or whatever. But not for audio critique.


If you think your car sounds great for instance - maybe it does - but it will not compare to practically any high-end home set-up, or for that matter, a decent pair of headphones. (not blue tooth...don't get me started...)


I've done this experiment with all types of folks, young, old, different music styles, musicians, non-musicians, and self-proclaimed "tone deaf" folks - and there is NO TELLING who can identify compressed files from non-compressed. It's like the human genome is moving towards Poor Audio. But if you claim you cannot hear the different - please just accept it - many people can. A bit off topic, sorry, but the OP was about the "fad" of good audio (or equipment) - and my point is - the "fad" now is to accept poor audio as normal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-26-2023, 09:55 AM
 
1,586 posts, read 1,128,314 times
Reputation: 5169
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpasa View Post
I remember in the 1970s when it was popular for people (mostly younger men) to have really elaborate, big home stereos. B&O was a company that made sleek, ultramodern turntables. They also had a thing called Discwasher which you'd use to clean your records. It had a really nice wood handle.

There was also Stereo Review magazine, which still exists. Audiophiles also claimed reel-to-reel tapes were the way to go. Really expensive Bose headphones.

Do you see this as a fad? Maybe it's just me.
Nope. Many of us are still here. Although it is now a smaller subset of people ...maybe. There aren't magazines because Facebook, YouTube, and forums exist. There are hundreds of audiophile Facebook groups alone. And endless YouTube review channels.

High-end turntables are now made by Linn Klimax, Rega Planar, Vertere Acoustics, VPI, Clearaudio Ovation, Rega, Mark Levinson, SME, etc.

Bose is considered a laughing stock these days. My gosh but they sound terrible. (...although their headphones are pretty decent.) The old standbys from the 70's such as Marantz, Kenwood, Sansui, Sherwood, Technics have been overtaken because they stood still. Top brands today include Aerial Acoustics, Bowers & Wilkens, Dynaudio, Focal, Harman (Revel), KEF, Magico, Monitor, Audio, PMC, Sonus Faber, Vandersteen, Vienna Acoustics, Vivid, Wilson Audio have taken over. Serious money now.

The United States Earphones and Headphones Market Size was valued at USD 7.25 Billion in 2022. The Market Size is growing at a CAGR of 12.5% from 2022 to 2032. The United States Earphones and Headphones Market Size is expected to reach USD 23.6 Billion by 2032. Audiophile headphones are either hundreds or thousands of dollars and are alive and well.

Also don't forget that a lot of the audiophile industry has migrated to the Home Theater market. I can attest that a decent home theater will cost thousands.

Lastly, another example would be the after-market specialty car audio industry which is quietly booming right now. These companies are super high-end. Carbon or aluminum cones, neodymium magnets, rubber surrounds or hexagonal-shaped wiring. Companies like Mosconi, Hertz Mille, Hybrid Audio Legatia, Morel, Focal, Arc Audio, Audio Frog, and many others for example.

You likely don't run in those circles so are unaware that it is bigger than ever.

Last edited by 2Loud; 12-26-2023 at 10:16 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2023, 10:13 AM
 
1,586 posts, read 1,128,314 times
Reputation: 5169
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
A bit off topic, sorry, but the OP was about the "fad" of good audio (or equipment) - and my point is - the "fad" now is to accept poor audio as normal.
I don't think that is unique at all to today. The average person bought a boom box or walked around with Walkman and those cheapo headphones in the 70's and 80's which were truly low quality. That was the average consumer.

Just becuase we all knew a friend that had a high-end system is meanless when nearly everyone else around us was perfectly fine with an "All-in-one-bookshelf-turntable-radio-dual-cassette-deck-system". Compared to those systems, even an MP3 broadcast over Bluetooth is better. I don't think the "it's good enough" phenomenon is new at all. It's quite normal.

It's not about the equipment that has declined for the average consumer. It is fundamentally the same as "good enough". No, it is the recording process itself that has certainly declined. The recording equipment today is more than capable of everything 70s and 80s recording equipment was. But the mixing and the dynamic sensitivity is pushed way too high now. The quiet passages are noisier now since the noise floor is raised so much. They also don't seem to care where the instruments are placed across the soundstage any longer. They wonder around and manipulate. "Stereo" is good enough I guess.

Personally the "loudness wars" is what destroyed today's recodings from ever sounding "human" or better than we had in the 70's and 80's. Not the equipment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2023, 11:16 AM
 
Location: NNJ
15,071 posts, read 10,093,479 times
Reputation: 17247
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpasa View Post
Do you see this as a fad? Maybe it's just me.
I don't think it is a fad. I'm no Audiophile and there will always be those who want to experience the best sound at home with the systems to provide that experience. My father was one of those audiophiles and I joined him in his interest because simply put, anything less back then, was subpar in sound quality even to the "novice" ear.

What I have seen change is the drastic improvement of quality from the lower and mid-tier sound equipment. They have also been miniaturized and more affordable today. Those who have an interest in high-end audio remain interested in the "big" systems remained interested and continue to drive that tier of the market. Those, like myself, who still want that high-quality sound but are not quite interested in "big" systems now have plenty of options. Options that provide a very nice, good-enough, experience at home.

I am no audiophile but I love to tinker. I repurposed two dead bluetooth speakers into an inexpensive sound system recently. It was done on the cheap but the quality of the sound from such a compact system is far above anything I've had in my childhood/teens. That alone was enough to meet my needs/expectations that I really don't have an interest in "big" component systems but I certainly can understand those who do crave it.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/cons...-projects.html

So while I would say the market for those big high fidelity systems has shrunk, it certainly won't go away and certainly isn't a fad.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2023, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,977 posts, read 5,673,914 times
Reputation: 22125
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Loud View Post
I don't think that is unique at all to today. The average person bought a boom box or walked around with Walkman and those cheapo headphones in the 70's and 80's which were truly low quality. That was the average consumer.
The "average consumer" put up with crappy boom boxes and cheap headphones in the 70s/80s because that's all that was available in a reasonably portable format. As higher quality portable options became available, consumers transitioned accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Loud View Post
It's not about the equipment that has declined for the average consumer. It is fundamentally the same as "good enough". No, it is the recording process itself that has certainly declined. The recording equipment today is more than capable of everything 70s and 80s recording equipment was. But the mixing and the dynamic sensitivity is pushed way too high now. The quiet passages are noisier now since the noise floor is raised so much. They also don't seem to care where the instruments are placed across the soundstage any longer. They wonder around and manipulate. "Stereo" is good enough I guess.

Personally the "loudness wars" is what destroyed today's recodings from ever sounding "human" or better than we had in the 70's and 80's. Not the equipment.
Yeah, what HAS degraded is the sound quality of the music production and distribution methods. In addition to the destruction of detail and dynamic range thanks to the loudness wars, the migration from CDs to primarily lossy downloads and then lossy streaming services, as far as I can recall, represents the first consumer mass migration from a prior format to a new one that resulted in a significant LOSS in sound quality. I understand why it started that way, back when a "high speed" internet connection was 1.5 megabits per second and hard drive storage was expensive and limited. Nowadays when you can download an entire CD-quality album in 5 to 10 seconds and data storage is cheap and plentiful, there's no excuse for it.

This is why I use Amazon Music as my primary streaming source: first, their catalog is over 100 million songs so pretty much everything but the most obscure stuff is available; and second, their streaming audio is MIMIMUM CD quality, with some of the catalog available at up to 24bit/96kbps provided your playback device is capable. If not it will automatically downrate to your device's highest available playback capability.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2023, 02:35 PM
 
Location: New England
3,263 posts, read 1,742,217 times
Reputation: 9132
I received a set of Bose noise canceling over the ear headphones from my son and the sound quality is fantastic! The soundtrack from the TV seems to follow the screen. I can hear characters moving about from side to side as well as when they are approaching or walking away. Truly immersive life-like sound!

When I turn the headphones on the main speakers shut off. Perfect for me as my wife tends to go to bed before me. Now I can stay up late without disturbing her.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-27-2023, 07:29 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,550 posts, read 81,117,303 times
Reputation: 57755
I still have a box of 8 Track tapes from back in the late 60s, but nothing to play them on any more. My stereo in the house has a turntable and will also play AM, FM, CD, Cassettes, and Bluetooth for streaming off of the phone or iPad. We use it mostly for our '60s-'70s vinyl collection and for streaming. There is still something about the LP record that makes it sound a lot better than the ultra-clean sound of digital.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2024, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Western PA
10,832 posts, read 4,517,327 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpasa View Post
I remember in the 1970s when it was popular for people (mostly younger men) to have really elaborate, big home stereos. B&O was a company that made sleek, ultramodern turntables. They also had a thing called Discwasher which you'd use to clean your records. It had a really nice wood handle.

There was also Stereo Review magazine, which still exists. Audiophiles also claimed reel-to-reel tapes were the way to go. Really expensive Bose headphones.

Do you see this as a fad? Maybe it's just me.

its more than a fad. a number of us brought it back to the forefront on another website by restoring these things. I think they sell for way too much today and parts are getting hard to procure given that the manufacturers are heading to SMD only.


Everyone wanted big and elaborate, but cost was an issue. the most prolific was the pioneer SX780 and there were a number of like powered models from the same time.


My daily driver in my office is an SX890 and my man cave unit to be restored is an SX3900 (yeah, Im a pioneer bigot)


in 1993 I got my new pioneer VSX-D602S based on a review in stereo review...and I got it from the 'island' for a decent discount. It still plays.


I had a couple B&Os including a record deck, my HS and later TT was a LAB390 (technics) and my long term DD was a KD5033, now its an SLJ3
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2024, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Western PA
10,832 posts, read 4,517,327 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver 47 View Post
Sansui771 receiver,

I used to do so many of the sansui 'xx1's that I once had people sending them to me for free. And I dont think I have even SEEN one in the last 8-10 years. I think too many have made their way to long beach where the future is a container and mainland china to be used (they are in the mid 80s audio wise over there) or torn apart for parts or counterfeiting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2024, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Western PA
10,832 posts, read 4,517,327 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge5 View Post
Crazy Eddie was nailed on some white collar crime.

A receiver or pre-amp and amp with 200 watts per channel will increase the quality of the sound even if you don't play it loud. The powerful amps have a punchiness to them at low volume that isn't easy to get with less powerful systems.

you only need power if you need to move big speakers or the speakers you have are horribly inefficient. By the time you make a clean machine using the best in NSA topology and dc servo control, might as well add a few watts. once darlington configs became the norm, the distortion levels went to 1/10th
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top