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Communication and interaction have nothing to do with consciousness, which is a requisite for feeling pain.
Not all living things have wants, though. Having a preference implies consciousness, and plants aren't conscious.
Except the research doesn't say plants can feel anything. It says they emit sound.
It doesn't matter what different authors say when referencing the research. It matters what the actual researchers said in the study. And they didn't say "scream," nor did they imply that plants are conscious.
Dictionaries define scream as a loud cry or cries, high-pitched sounds which is what happened. It should not come as a surprise that the sounds plants emitted increased ('screamed') when they were distressed.
Feel is defined as to be aware of something happening through physical sensation. The plants reacted to negative sensations with increasing sounds ('screams'). All organisms in natural circumstances---animals, plants, bacteria---are aware of changes in their environment and respond by changing behavior.
No one claimed anything about consciousness or pain (things that no one as of yet has determined yes or no).
Another interesting thing about plants is that, as a whole, they evolved toxic defenses for survival. They can't escape predators and don't want to be eaten (or touched in many cases).
The plants humans eat have toxic defenses. Some foods we eat are low level and some are high level. Lectins, for example, are reduced by cooking thoroughly but even small amounts eaten in excess (as in 100% or mostly plant diet), can cause negative health effects (nutrient malabsorption and many more). Some people are more sensitive than others and experience effects even when they are included in a more balanced diet. A few high lectin foods are peanuts and other legumes, grains, beans; and some low level lectin foods are cruciferous vegetables, asparagus, celery, leafy greens.
Dictionaries define scream as a loud cry or cries, high-pitched sounds which is what happened. It should not come as a surprise that the sounds plants emitted increased ('screamed') when they were distressed.
Feel is defined as to be aware of something happening through physical sensation. The plants reacted to negative sensations with increasing sounds ('screams'). All organisms in natural circumstances---animals, plants, bacteria---are aware of changes in their environment and respond by changing behavior.
No one claimed anything about consciousness or pain (things that no one as of yet has determined yes or no).
"Feel" and "aware" in this context imply consciousness. In fact, "aware" is defined as "conscious knowledge." Simply because something responds to outside stimuli doesn't mean it is aware of outside stimuli. Awareness requires attention, and attention requires consciousness.
But if the "screams," which is a term the authors of the study didn't use, are not indicative of consciousness, why would this news be distressing to vegans?
"Feel" and "aware" in this context imply consciousness. In fact, "aware" is defined as "conscious knowledge." Simply because something responds to outside stimuli doesn't mean it is aware of outside stimuli. Awareness requires attention, and attention requires consciousness
It's assumed that plants lack a consciousness or awareness because they lack animal brains, but science is exploring and evolving our understanding of consciousness. One thing is clear, plants are not the benign organisms they were once believed to be. The hard boundary between the plant and animal world does not exist. The biological function of awareness is an input to behavior and it's adaptive and based on information, which organisms including plants do (numerous examples from research experiments). Plants use animal-type neurotransmitters as we do, and they have actually displayed learned responses.
All organisms, from simple to complex, are aware of their surroundings and modify their behavior to improve survival. Plants have to monitor more signals from their environment than animals do because they can't run away or hide. The conscious experiences of nonhuman animals are unique to their species. Perhaps plants have conscious experiences unique to their species. As I said previously, this has not been proved or disproved.
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why would this news be distressing to vegans?
Because humans are potentially facing the same kinds of ethical issues that we face with factory farming in conventional agriculture.
Stressed plants show altered phenotypes, including changes in color, smell, and shape. Yet, airborne sounds emitted by stressed plants have not been investigated before. Here we show that stressed plants emit airborne sounds that can be recorded from a distance and classified. We recorded ultrasonic sounds emitted by tomato and tobacco plants inside an acoustic chamber, and in a greenhouse, while monitoring the plant’s physiological parameters. We developed machine learning models that succeeded in identifying the condition of the plants, including dehydration level and injury, based solely on the emitted sounds. These informative sounds may also be detectable by other organisms. This work opens avenues for understanding plants and their interactions with the environment and may have significant impact on agriculture.
(So it's a lot less sensational than the Indy article's fiction makes it sound)
It's assumed that plants lack a consciousness or awareness because they lack animal brains, but science is exploring and evolving our understanding of consciousness. One thing is clear, plants are not the benign organisms they were once believed to be. The hard boundary between the plant and animal world does not exist.
Morally, it does. Consciousness is the moral substrate. If an organism isn't conscious, we have no ethical obligations toward it. It cannot suffer, cannot experience pleasure...these facts preclude such an organism from moral consideration.
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Originally Posted by SimplySagacious
The biological function of awareness is an input to behavior and it's adaptive and based on information, which organisms including plants do
But awareness requires consciousness. That a plant can alter behavior without awareness doesn't mean they are of equal moral consideration as an organism capable of awareness.
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Originally Posted by SimplySagacious
All organisms, from simple to complex, are aware of their surroundings
No, they aren't. Awareness requires consciousness.
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Originally Posted by SimplySagacious
Because humans are potentially facing the same kinds of ethical issues that we face with factory farming in conventional agriculture.
The entirety of the factory farming issue with animals relates to animals' ability to undergo negative conscious experiences.
Stressed plants show altered phenotypes, including changes in color, smell, and shape. Yet, airborne sounds emitted by stressed plants have not been investigated before. Here we show that stressed plants emit airborne sounds that can be recorded from a distance and classified. We recorded ultrasonic sounds emitted by tomato and tobacco plants inside an acoustic chamber, and in a greenhouse, while monitoring the plant’s physiological parameters. We developed machine learning models that succeeded in identifying the condition of the plants, including dehydration level and injury, based solely on the emitted sounds. These informative sounds may also be detectable by other organisms. This work opens avenues for understanding plants and their interactions with the environment and may have significant impact on agriculture.
(So it's a lot less sensational than the Indy article's fiction makes it sound)
Yes, and we've known forever that stressed plants exhibit signs of distress. They turn brown, wilt, etc. Sound may be a surprising method of this, but plants responding to stress is hardly revelatory.
Hogwash! The key word in the video is "manipulated"
In college Biology 201, over 50 years ago (I was a Biology major before shifting to pharmacy), we looked into plant "sounds" What you hear in the recording is shifting of the plant structure in the breeze--Look at video and see that plant is blowing in the wind, and you hear the plant fibers moving against each other
We did the exact same experiment in a glass sealed bubble and the "stressors were several heat lamps. No noise-NO SCREAMING!
Hogwash! The key word in the video is "manipulated"
In college Biology 201, over 50 years ago (I was a Biology major before shifting to pharmacy), we looked into plant "sounds" What you hear in the recording is shifting of the plant structure in the breeze--Look at video and see that plant is blowing in the wind, and you hear the plant fibers moving against each other
We did the exact same experiment in a glass sealed bubble and the "stressors were several heat lamps. No noise-NO SCREAMING!
Morally, it does. Consciousness is the moral substrate. If an organism isn't conscious, we have no ethical obligations toward it. It cannot suffer, cannot experience pleasure...these facts preclude such an organism from moral consideration.
Those are not facts. It's conjecture.
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But awareness requires consciousness. That a plant can alter behavior without awareness doesn't mean they are of equal moral consideration as an organism capable of awareness.
No, they aren't. Awareness requires consciousness.
There is scientific evidence that plants (and all living organisms) are aware so you are suggesting that some level of plant consciousness, unique to their species, exists.
Science can't explain consiousness despite trying for decades. It's not a scientific term. It's an elusive concept and its meaning is still highly-debated.
Science has no idea how consciousness emerges, or if consciousness can emerge from even non-biological systems such as computers, but there is debate about this too.
But whatever folks need to tell themselves to ensure they have something to eat while self-identifying as moral superiors.
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