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If there are multiple intruders you're screwed if you "cylinder dump" all your ammo into the first guy. You're dead. I Also don't see the point of snake shot. If you're shooting someone it's because your life is in imminent danger and if you are in that scenario you need to immediately do all possible to eliminate the threat. I will be using all JHP ammo. I'm not messing around with Snake shot which may or may not incapacitate anyone and by that point you've giveaway your position and wasted 1/3 of your ammo on a novelty.
If you are going the route of a pistol for home defense go the tried and true method of a fullsize striker fired pistol without a safety (if you are in a free state get 17rd mags) and attach a light and load it with 17 rounds of hollow points. You need a light to identify what that shadowy figure is moving at the end of the hall, is it your kid sneaking in past curfew or a burglar? Don't guess, know for sure.
Not really a terrible strategy.
My scenario was addressing 1 and only 1 perp.
The reason behind the snake shot strategy is...if you are awakened by an intruder and speed is of the essence, then turning "on" an aiming device is time not WELL SPENT. If you need to get a shot off NOW, how accurate do you think you're going to be? (Remember, real life is NOT like a John Wayne movie.) The first 2 being snake shot are designed to slow down 1 intruder. (If you have 6 intruders, then a grenade is useful. Maybe a few grenades.)
2-3 intruders changes tactics. For this situation, you go Glock (or whatever you frequently shoot) in a calibre you shoot frequently. (I agree with your larger mag capacity comments.)
Lastly, you mention "giving up position" by using a lighted aiming device or muzzle flash. You're right, you do. There are techniques to minimize your silhouette, but I'm NOT saying how to do this, here. (Or, anywhere else for that matter.)
Automatically? How is that even possible with any legal gun?
Do you mean you fire the entire set quickly? What if another intruder is lurking, or maybe two more?
Seems foolish to keep nothing in reserve. Or do you come out like Yosemite Sam, with TWO guns, one in each hand?
You don’t need a fully automatic weapon. You can do a “mag dump” with a semi auto. Just keep pulling the trigger until the gun goes click, click. I probably wouldn’t do it, but you can.
You don’t need a fully automatic weapon. You can do a “mag dump” with a semi auto. Just keep pulling the trigger until the gun goes click, click. I probably wouldn’t do it, but you can.
Bumpfire is easy with most semiautos. Just takes a bit of practice. But also, Jerry Micluk can shoot a semiautomatic as fast as a full auto. I’m surprised the ATF hasn’t shot his dog and thrown him in jail yet.
Bumpfire is easy with most semiautos. Just takes a bit of practice. But also, Jerry Micluk can shoot a semiautomatic as fast as a full auto. I’m surprised the ATF hasn’t shot his dog and thrown him in jail yet.
They probably have a plan to do that ... and just need the 'right' excuse.
Someone right at the top mentioned a lever action. I'd recommend a semi-auto but the argument for a lever in your situation is also very strong. I've got a Rossi .357 lever action that would be a good fit except it's got a heavy barrel. Maybe the regular barrel (mine is octagon) would be lighter and more suitable, not that mine is really all that heavy.
It may be out of your price range now with inflation and all but a Kel-Tec RDB makes a good home defense rifle. It's basically an AR-15 that's been shortened by moving the magazine & barrel breech behind the trigger assembly instead of in front of it (bullpup). It's my current favorite rifle specifically because it's the ideal (imo) home defense gun and because it's crazy easy and fun to shoot.
I have had quite a bit of training and a bit of real life experience
Long arms are only recommended from a stationary position for civilians ….they are not what you want to use to walk around the house checking out noises , turning corners in the house. , or rounding up family members or opening the front door
They are best used from a safe room behind cover .
They are extremely easy to have leveraged away when that barrel is grabbed .
They are near impossible to dial a phone with while keeping a bad guy covered .
They are way over penetrating and can hit family members .
Shotguns can also have a lot of recoil and at close range the spread of shot is barely as wide as a cigarette pack so missing is easy for a shaking scared civilian .
They can be extremely difficult to use if an arm is injured ..
Nothing beats a snubby hammerless revolver for checking out things in the house …they are very hard to grab and they always go bang with no safety .
They can even be slipped in a robe pocket and fired from within a pocket multiple times without ever producing it …a semi auto pistol can not do that since the slide has to operate .
For a handgun for use in the home ,I like something like the S&W 640 hammerless with p+ ammo .
I actually used it in a situation .
It was perfect for the situation.
When I lived in queens in nyc all the homes on the blocks where were lived were cookie cutter .
One night I was woken up to loud banging on the door ….
I threw on a robe and slipped the 640 in my pocket .
I kept going who is it , but i couldn’t understand what they were saying .
Being I was surrounded by elderly neighbors I thought it may be one of my neighbors in distress but I couldn’t see in the dark .
So with the 640 in my robe and pointed at the subject I opened the door .
It was a drunk guy who barely spoke English …he was at the right house where his friends lived but wrong block .
He thought he was at his buddy’s house party .
He had no idea a firearm was pointed right at him and I never had to remove it from my pocket .
These are the reasons long arms do not replace handguns …they each have a different roll to fill . Ideally you want both .
Long arms are a great defense firearm from a fixed position but handguns are the choice for going mobile
Typical scenario I've trained for.... the encounter will be at 3 yards, you'll need to draw-shoot-3 rounds, this will all happen in three seconds. So the moment you encounter a potential threat you have 3 seconds. Train-train-train.
3-3-3. Rinse lather repeat.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Shoot fast real slow and accuracy is final.
Someone right at the top mentioned a lever action. I'd recommend a semi-auto but the argument for a lever in your situation is also very strong. I've got a Rossi .357 lever action that would be a good fit except it's got a heavy barrel. Maybe the regular barrel (mine is octagon) would be lighter and more suitable, not that mine is really all that heavy.
It may be out of your price range now with inflation and all but a Kel-Tec RDB makes a good home defense rifle. It's basically an AR-15 that's been shortened by moving the magazine & barrel breech behind the trigger assembly instead of in front of it (bullpup). It's my current favorite rifle specifically because it's the ideal (imo) home defense gun and because it's crazy easy and fun to shoot.
The only positive I can see for the RDB over an AR is shorter OAL. However, that goes away with a pistol AR or SBR. I can’t see any other way in which a Bullpup (of any manufacture) is superior to an AR.
I agree with most of what you wrote, with just a few exceptions, in red below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
I have had quite a bit of training and a bit of real life experience
Long arms are only recommended from a stationary position for civilians ….they are not what you want to use to walk around the house checking out noises , turning corners in the house. , or rounding up family members or opening the front door
They are best used from a safe room behind cover .
They are extremely easy to have leveraged away when that barrel is grabbed .
If the holder of the long gun starts pulling the trigger, while pulling back on the gun and moving backwards, bad guy trying to take that gun away is going to be in for an E-ticket ride (this assumes something like an AR. A 34” duck gun? You’re probably right).
They are near impossible to dial a phone with while keeping a bad guy covered .
They are way over penetrating and can hit family members .
Every common self defense caliber, including .38/.357, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 12 ga buckshot, 5.56, etc. will penetrate more than 4 interior walls. Do a search on “Wall-o-truth” for real world penetration tests.
Shotguns can also have a lot of recoil and at close range the spread of shot is barely as wide as a cigarette pack so missing is easy for a shaking scared civilian .
They can be extremely difficult to use if an arm is injured ..
Nothing beats a snubby hammerless revolver for checking out things in the house …they are very hard to grab and they always go bang with no safety.
Snubbies can be notoriously hard to shoot well and recoil can be vicious. Die to these factors, few but the most dedicated are willing to put in the necessary practice. For those that are, those downsides can be mitigated.
They can even be slipped in a robe pocket and fired from within a pocket multiple times without ever producing it …a semi auto pistol can not do that since the slide has to operate .
For a handgun for use in the home ,I like something like the S&W 640 hammerless with p+ ammo .
I actually used it in a situation .
It was perfect for the situation.
When I lived in queens in nyc all the homes on the blocks where were lived were cookie cutter .
One night I was woken up to loud banging on the door ….
I threw on a robe and slipped the 640 in my pocket .
I kept going who is it , but i couldn’t understand what they were saying .
Being I was surrounded by elderly neighbors I thought it may be one of my neighbors in distress but I couldn’t see in the dark .
So with the 640 in my robe and pointed at the subject I opened the door .
It was a drunk guy who barely spoke English …he was at the right house where his friends lived but wrong block .
He thought he was at his buddy’s house party .
He had no idea a firearm was pointed right at him and I never had to remove it from my pocket .
These are the reasons long arms do not replace handguns …they each have a different roll to fill . Ideally you want both .
Long arms are a great defense firearm from a fixed position but handguns are the choice for going mobile
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