Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes 9/11 and 2020 were big deals and traumatic - but they pale in comparison to getting drafted for Vietnam, the cuban missile crisis and the threat of nuclear holocaust, the great depression, 10s of millions dead in the Spanish flu...
It is interesting that you mention JFK's missile 'crisis'. It happened when I was still wearing diapers, though I have had a number of coworkers who were in Cuba in 1962 doing maintenance on our hundreds of nuclear warheads tied up to the pier there.
It is interesting that JFK freaked out so badly when the USSR wanted to install nuclear missiles 10 miles from our nuclear missiles.
I have gotten the impression that the media failed to report on most of that.
Quote:
... My grandpa was a flamethrower on the Pacific islands in WWII. He never talked about any of the experience ever (outside of that he was convinced he would die in the conflict), he made his kids shoot a dying farm animal, and he wouldn't let any of them play with toy soldiers. That trauma is magnitudes more than most any american experiences today.
If they took the same criteria use in DSM 5 or whatever they are on now and asked people in Americans how depressed or troubled they were in 1934 or even moreso in 1873, those numbers would blow today's numbers out of the water.
There are a lot of people who are not in the ideal mental health state, but what really has changed is the bar of comparison. If people were comparing against the sharecroppers missing teeth and that never left the state, they'd feel good. When todays kids compare themselves against their peers who drive Volvos, attend 35 concerts, and take 3 international trips, they feel like they are in a low bracket.
A lot of young people that report feeling depressed aren't even depressed. I simply don't believe that very many young people at all live existences with literally no bright spots in life, where they are actually devoid of any positive experiences. Like others have mentioned people are just self identifying and slapping labels on themselves to try to bridge reality to perception, to explain why they aren't a specimen human. Reality is actually pretty cushy, perceptions are off kilter.
My family were migrant farmworkers who eventually climbed their way up to the status of sharecroppers.
I think any "study" that asks kids for their feelings on stuff needs to be viewed with a skeptical eye. Lots of kids in adolescence do or say things to shock or dramatize a situation. It's just what kids are at that stage of life. Pushing boundaries is what most do to grow and mature. Not saying there isn't a subset of kids that need help and better guidance. In my cohort we did a lot of goofy crap but I really don't remember seeing anyone who would be unable to cope in the real world.
Plus we should keep in mind those doing these studies or whatever aren't doing them out of the goodness of their hearts. They have to make a living too. The more troubled kids, the more money gets thrown at it. And kids are smart. If they catch even a whiff of weakness from you they will, many times, take advantage of it. From what I've seen, if you expect a youngster to mature and treat them that way, most will be fine.
Stress, anxiety, depression are all normal things people go through when they're young. One can't grow mentally in an emotional and intellectual whiteout.
Yes 9/11 and 2020 were big deals and traumatic - but they pale in comparison to getting drafted for Vietnam, the cuban missile crisis and the threat of nuclear holocaust, the great depression, 10s of millions dead in the Spanish flu...
My grandpa was a flamethrower on the Pacific islands in WWII. He never talked about any of the experience ever (outside of that he was convinced he would die in the conflict), he made his kids shoot a dying farm animal, and he wouldn't let any of them play with toy soldiers. That trauma is magnitudes more than most any american experiences today.
If they took the same criteria use in DSM 5 or whatever they are on now and asked people in Americans how depressed or troubled they were in 1934 or even moreso in 1873, those numbers would blow today's numbers out of the water.
There are a lot of people who are not in the ideal mental health state, but what really has changed is the bar of comparison. If people were comparing against the sharecroppers missing teeth and that never left the state, they'd feel good. When todays kids compare themselves against their peers who drive Volvos, attend 35 concerts, and take 3 international trips, they feel like they are in a low bracket.
A lot of young people that report feeling depressed aren't even depressed. I simply don't believe that very many young people at all live existences with literally no bright spots in life, where they are actually devoid of any positive experiences. Like others have mentioned people are just self identifying and slapping labels on themselves to try to bridge reality to perception, to explain why they aren't a specimen human. Reality is actually pretty cushy, perceptions are off kilter.
I know that times were not better before, trust me I am not pining for the good ol' days of yore, and I was only making a rather limited comparison from my own youth to what I see in my sons' generation.
I've read books written by people who lived a hundred years ago, I have an idea.
However, there's a difference. The people back then often did still believe that their hard work had a purpose. That it would get them somewhere, if they kept at it. I believed that, too, and that's why I did see and grab opportunities that came my way, and made the most of them. I started very, very low...and now have seven figure net worth, which while not shockingly rich or anything is certainly comfortable. (Granted, big part of that was a few instances of unlooked for good luck, but my point is that I am not one to throw away good fortune.)
But I know other people...of the Boomer generation (my Mom) and older Gen X (ex husband) and Gen Z (my sons) who seem to take any windfall and burn through it like it's nothing. Who get an opportunity that could pay off, and just throw it away the moment they have to control their own behavior or do any work at all. My ex doesn't beg from me, out of pride, he'd rather die in a ditch...but my Mom and sons sure as hell do. Constantly.
When I was a young adult, no one wanted to help me, and if they said they were willing to, the reality was that they wanted to take advantage of me, not really to help. Those with the means, turned their backs. While this was hurtful and occasionally still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth...I have to appreciate that I DID have to buck up and get things done, since nobody else would. I DID have to have faith that my work would benefit me and to keep at it, and so I did that, and so it has.
My kids though...it's like they don't believe that any amount of work will ever be worthwhile, they throw away any money or opportunity as soon as they get it. They don't appreciate anything and don't see any point in trying. The only thing that either of them lives for, is escape...one via drugs & alcohol, the other via video games. And I really cannot help but think that giving them the video games to spend their free time playing when they were young probably helped to program their brains to not find reality rewarding. Both of them are anxious and depressed. Neither are living lives that are "cushy"...one of them is homeless and sleeping in his girlfriend's car, the other one is barely surviving on the generosity of his girlfriend, neither one lives a life of luxury and they are both pretty miserable.
Though their lives WERE pretty cushy when they were children. Which seems like part of the cycle. I had a rough childhood, and I grew up believing that if I wanted anything done that I cared about, I'd need to deal with it myself because no one else would give a damn. It's harsh. And yet. It's hard though, for parents. I felt a lot of pressure to be a "good Mom" and do everything "right" for my kids. To "succeed" in all the ways I thought my parents "failed"...yet I could not get my head around the fact that their failures may have led to me being capable of success...? It's a bit of a paradox.
And what about mass media in the 4 generations before? That screwed up more people with propaganda and programming than social media does today, especially if you include the USSR and Turkey and places like that.
Social media checking in with what's happening with the Jones's is nothing new. Look at the 1915 newspaper from Dawsonville GA!
Sorry, but I agree with Sand&Salt. Newspapers have no comparison to Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and all the rest. Constant bombardment at the speed of light 24/7 on how great everyone else has it except for you. Most young minds haven't matured enough to know it's all a facade.
When I was growing up, I had to take the time to read a newspaper, be patient with the news on TV (if I even cared), or just hang out with my friends and talk. There was no fakeness because it was all in real life. It was much more innocent as a kid, of course until I became an adult and realized what responsibility really is.
Under 18 is way too young to be sold a fake bill of goods in social media. They are way too easily influenced, which is why there's such a huge business for "Social Media Influencers".
That's my take on this. Of course we all have our own opinions and each of us have a bit if truth here. This one is mine.
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning, since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it
Look.. We've all had to deal with the fire. This generation, honestly, has it the easiest in some ways. It's now recognized.
In other ways, they have it much more difficult. We didn't have to deal with some of the things they do.
But.. Doesn't it all pretty much just even out in the end?
They have to worry about school shootings.. We had to worry about taking showers after gym class. The damn amount of stress that caused.. I'd go myself vs 15 school shooters rather than deal with that stress again. And, TBH, once that particular bullet was bitten, so to speak, I found that I had really worked myself up over nothing.
We had to worry about nukes raining down on our heads and participate in ridiculous 'duck and cover' drills.. Getting under our desks when the air raid siren went off. Might as well have told us to curl up in a ball and kiss our ass goodbye.
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not being dismissive.. But saying that it's worse now.. Not really. The fact that it's recognized and can be talked about now without fear or shame is a HUGE advantage for current youth. The fact that someone in high school can come out as gay which.. People now think bullying in school is bad? Any of us in school in the 80's know what it was like then.. And.. If someone had come out in high school at that time? Open season on them, most likely.
That being said.. Do they have difficulties that we didn't have to deal with? Certainly. Social media being one.. Which.. in a way.. I would consider something of a self inflicted wound.
We certainly didn't have to worry about boys going into the girls bathroom.. That would have been dealt with harshly back in the day.
Everything learned through consequences sticks pretty good. Make a mistake, get a surprise and you don't forget. It's a brutal fact of behaviorism that negative consequence shape a person more quickly than rewards.
It might just be natural forces in the world handing out the consequences. Defy gravity and you fall down. But another thing that helps a child is a loving protector who is not afraid to allow a child to experience the consequences of his behavior. And then all the loving part of helping him get up and persevere and pasting the bandages physically and psychologically.
As much as we despise the fact, these are the experiences that make us strong and confident. We survived. We know we can get through it again.
It's the absolute most painful role a mother or father can play, allowing a child to suffer consequences of his behavior. Most of us would rather take the consequences for him. Yet if we do, we rob him of his learning experience.
I'm certain that softening consequences in the name of compassion plays at least one part in the current dilemma. (I could have said that twenty years ago without feeling like a meany, but the social conditioning has affected me too.)
There are more factors, but a big one is what happens when I act? Do I get something good? Something bad? Does anyone notice at all?
A nod to Stealth Rabbit's post. Creating positive thought about our lives changes feelings. It's such a simple rule but few practice it. I suggest examining that there may be positive rewards in current society for "suffering."
Edited to add:
I meant to mention that this "lost generation " thing is cyclical. It could be a natural progression from silent, powerful generations who act to more verbal, less powerful generations who flounder.
Thank you, your perspective gives a lot of insight.
I can understand that internet access among children has had an extremely negative effect.
I have read a few articles about the dopamine highs brought on by internet usage. I suspect that drug is having more of a negative impact on our youth than all the Adderall, Concerta, Dexedrine, Evekeo, Focalin, Quillivant, and Ritalin in the world.
We were raising children from 1985 until 2008-ish. The state required that our foster children were all taking the prescribed amphetamines.
With our biological adopted children, when they exhibited the same symptoms we had them walk around the block. My wife called it 'blowing off the stink'.
We homeschooled. If a child can focus for one hour a day with a good curriculum they can stay up with grade-level easily, and once they have mastered the ninth-grade curriculum they are ready to enter college. If 30 minutes into it, they get restless and lose focus it is time for them to go blow off the stink. When they returned home, they were ready to focus on a textbook once again.
But our foster children had a lot more difficulty. Being drugged up all day and confined inside a classroom.
Having observed the effects of confining children on amphetamines, side by side with children not on any drugs. I have to wonder about the effect of all the dopamine from internet access.
We have adopted grandchildren from foster care that have also been on a variety of prescriptions since they were small. Birth parents had psych issues themselves plus used drugs. So we understand why these children have so many mental issues even though they've been in a loving stable healthy home for many years.
But besides them, so many other children, now teens, from healthy families we know, have a variety of psych issues. It seems like way more than when we grew up. And it's starting in childhood, before they are teens and on social media.
Sorry, but I agree with Sand&Salt. Newspapers have no comparison to Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and all the rest. Constant bombardment at the speed of light 24/7 on how great everyone else has it except for you. Most young minds haven't matured enough to know it's all a facade.
When I was growing up, I had to take the time to read a newspaper, be patient with the news on TV (if I even cared), or just hang out with my friends and talk. There was no fakeness because it was all in real life. It was much more innocent as a kid, of course until I became an adult and realized what responsibility really is.
Under 18 is way too young to be sold a fake bill of goods in social media. They are way too easily influenced, which is why there's such a huge business for "Social Media Influencers".
That's my take on this. Of course we all have our own opinions and each of us have a bit if truth here. This one is mine.
Exactly. If we have to explain to Phil the difference between social media today and newspapers back then, well...I don't know what to say.
I sensed it was bad from the start so have no social media except this. Which also has a suspect percentage of posters with perfect lives, lol.
I can think of a difference in how the generations dealt with their traumatic experiences which might have meant that they expressed and dealt with them differently.
One generation externalized their issues and this one internalizes them.
Neither way might have been healthy without therapeutic follow-through but the coping styles are different. And the stats are still out on the newer generations.
There was an air of "we're in this together" with the Silent Generation that seems missing currently. Their kept their personal threats "out there" in spite of their personal turmoil. Action helped them to avoid dealing with the personal although it became inevitable later that personal issues had to be resolved for most of them.
I think the current generation has been given permission to examine the personal effects of their turmoil and share it but feels a sense of alienation and lack of support so that everything become personalized and maybe somewhat out of perspective in a lifetime view of things.
There's more of a "What about me, the individual" attitude than a general cooperative approach to problems.
Our politics has done a lot to exacerbate this attitude with Identity Politics. "The political is the personal" might be true but it doesn't solve the problem in a divided citizenship.
Maybe there's more of a sense that someone should address the discomfort they feel. It's a raw, frightening place to be. I don't think the Silent Generation expected that general support of the individual.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
