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@jetgraphics - Another difference between electric trains and electric road vehicles is the former does not need to store all its power on board and can be powered via either an electric rail or overhead lines running along the track.
@jetgraphics - Another difference between electric trains and electric road vehicles is the former does not need to store all its power on board and can be powered via either an electric rail or overhead lines running along the track.
During a cold outbreak that took the temperature in NYC down to +4°F, -15°C yesterday morning the traffic announcer stated that range was reduced to up to 40% if the car is operated with the heater on, and may not be able to start. This limits the practicality of EV's in a large portion of the U.S.
This is just fuel costs, I'm sure ICE vehicles have higher mileage costs than EVs because of more moving parts, but given the much larger up front costs of an EV, it's fair to say EVs are more expensive all around.
Will electricity prices go down in the future? Unlikely. Gas is likely to climb higher in the future though as well as oil companies are planning to reduce refining capacity faster than fuel consumption is projected to fall.
Bottom line, EVs are rushed. I think the 40 mile plug in market is actually the winner. Despite being more complex having two engines, it solves the issue of getting the majority of day to day driving electrified without having to build an overly mineral or cost intensive EV that tries to solve 100% of driving scenarios. The proven ICE technology solves the edge cases and the new EV technology solves the main case.
This is just fuel costs, I'm sure ICE vehicles have higher mileage costs than EVs because of more moving parts, but given the much larger up front costs of an EV, it's fair to say EVs are more expensive all around.
Will electricity prices go down in the future? Unlikely. Gas is likely to climb higher in the future though as well as oil companies are planning to reduce refining capacity faster than fuel consumption is projected to fall.
Bottom line, EVs are rushed. I think the 40 mile plug in market is actually the winner. Despite being more complex having two engines, it solves the issue of getting the majority of day to day driving electrified without having to build an overly mineral or cost intensive EV that tries to solve 100% of driving scenarios. The proven ICE technology solves the edge cases and the new EV technology solves the main case.
I would agree. Probably our best option right now is improving the all-electric range of plug-in hybrids to 50-100 miles. That would significantly reduce emissions since the median American commute is 41 miles a day. I would say an 80 mile electric range is the sweet spot. Then the gas engine takes over. That resolves the need for so many charging stations and doesn't overload on the electric grid as much, etc...
It looks like Toyota is moving that direction with the new Prius Prime. They claim it will have a significant improvement over the last Prius Prime in its all-electric range, supposedly 50% more which would be about 40-50 miles. They're not saying exactly how much yet.
I look forward to the day when I go to plug in my car to charge it up so I can get to work, only to find that someone has sabotaged the power station nearby.
I’ll wait to get an electric car. I don’t think they have thought it all out yet. LOL
@jetgraphics - Another difference between electric trains and electric road vehicles is the former does not need to store all its power on board and can be powered via either an electric rail or overhead lines running along the track.
True - for the most part.
There are plans to install batteries in trams / streetcars, to allow them to travel on unelectrified routes or where power is interrupted.
And it is feasible for non-rail vehicles to have pantographs or trolley poles to tap into the municipal grid - extending their range.
It might even be cost effective to run 3 wire / 3 phase AC for the streetcars / trams, and the pneumatic tire vehicles use 2 legs of the municipal power system... However, DC is generally the most efficient for a long distance electric traction railway.
Norway is going 100% electric by 2025. Last year 80% of new cars were electric. They are a small country and able to roll out the infrastructure more easily than the US. However, even before this move many people in Norway didn't purchase ICE vehicles. Purchasing a vehicle for the average Norwegian is an expensive proposition which requires significant planning. Many people utilize bicycles and public transportation. When I visited Norway in 1992 workers at the aerospace factory I was visiting biked in from as far as 15 miles away even in the dead of winter during a time of little or no sunlight. At the time, due to taxes and other fees, the cost of purchasing even a small vehicle such as an Ford Escort was 4 or 5 times the cost of the same vehicle in the US.
The average US citizen does not and will not support that type of restrictions on their personal freedoms. However, as time goes on, the cost of ICE vehicles will become much more expensive than electric ones and people many more people will choose them because it better meets their budget. Incentives on electric vehicles already are having an effect on many people's purchasing decisions.
Personally, I know a few people with Chevy Bolts. They are quite satisfied with it and use it extensively for local use. In each case it replaced a second vehicle. However, some have also started replacing their other ICE vehicle with a hybrid since the blended mpg is substantially better than the pure ICE version of the same vehicle.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian
Norway is going 100% electric by 2025. Last year 80% of new cars were electric. They are a small country and able to roll out the infrastructure more easily than the US. However, even before this move many people in Norway didn't purchase ICE vehicles. Purchasing a vehicle for the average Norwegian is an expensive proposition which requires significant planning. Many people utilize bicycles and public transportation. When I visited Norway in 1992 workers at the aerospace factory I was visiting biked in from as far as 15 miles away even in the dead of winter during a time of little or no sunlight. At the time, due to taxes and other fees, the cost of purchasing even a small vehicle such as an Ford Escort was 4 or 5 times the cost of the same vehicle in the US.
The average US citizen does not and will not support that type of restrictions on their personal freedoms. However, as time goes on, the cost of ICE vehicles will become much more expensive than electric ones and people many more people will choose them because it better meets their budget. Incentives on electric vehicles already are having an effect on many people's purchasing decisions.
Personally, I know a few people with Chevy Bolts. They are quite satisfied with it and use it extensively for local use. In each case it replaced a second vehicle. However, some have also started replacing their other ICE vehicle with a hybrid since the blended mpg is substantially better than the pure ICE version of the same vehicle.
In Norway, and many other European countries, having a short range is just not a problem. One can sometimes drive between 2-3 countries in a couple of hours. For the USA a decent road trip like Seattle to
San Francisco, or Dallas to Salt Lake City with 14-20 hours is going to require a lot of stopped time waiting to charge. I once drove from San Francisco to Spokane straight through, that was 900 miles, and with my 4 cylinder ICE Datsun with a little 13 gallon tank at the time filled up twice along the way.
Norway is going 100% electric by 2025. Last year 80% of new cars were electric. They are a small country and able to roll out the infrastructure more easily than the US. However, even before this move many people in Norway didn't purchase ICE vehicles. Purchasing a vehicle for the average Norwegian is an expensive proposition which requires significant planning. Many people utilize bicycles and public transportation. When I visited Norway in 1992 workers at the aerospace factory I was visiting biked in from as far as 15 miles away even in the dead of winter during a time of little or no sunlight. At the time, due to taxes and other fees, the cost of purchasing even a small vehicle such as an Ford Escort was 4 or 5 times the cost of the same vehicle in the US.
The average US citizen does not and will not support that type of restrictions on their personal freedoms. However, as time goes on, the cost of ICE vehicles will become much more expensive than electric ones and people many more people will choose them because it better meets their budget. Incentives on electric vehicles already are having an effect on many people's purchasing decisions.
Personally, I know a few people with Chevy Bolts. They are quite satisfied with it and use it extensively for local use. In each case it replaced a second vehicle. However, some have also started replacing their other ICE vehicle with a hybrid since the blended mpg is substantially better than the pure ICE version of the same vehicle.
One day one day... but for the meantime, there's not even the minerals to support a 100% switch, they are more expensive up front, and cost more in fuel. Everyone agrees by 2100 that'll be the case, but don't make that the vision for 2035.
Electric Vehicles Could Match Gasoline Cars on Price This Year
True that BEVs will never "take over" completely by 2035 but I think we'll be very far along by then.
Today's NY Times is reporting that costs of the inputs are coming down as well as federal/state incentives to make the switch.
Title: Electric Vehicles Could Match Gasoline Cars on Price This Year
Sub Title: Competition, government incentives and falling raw material prices are making battery-powered cars more affordable sooner than expected.
Excerpts: "Increased competition, government incentives and falling prices for lithium and other battery materials are making electric vehicles noticeably more affordable. The tipping point when electric vehicles become as cheap as or cheaper than cars with internal combustion engines could arrive this year for some mass market models and is already the case for some luxury vehicles. . . . The battery-powered version of G.M.’s Equinox crossover, for example, will start around $30,000 when it arrives this fall, the carmaker has said. That is $3,400 more than the least expensive gasoline-fueled Equinox. But factoring in government incentives, the electric Equinox should be cheaper. Like all electric vehicles, the car will need less maintenance, and the electricity to power it will cost less than the gasoline used by its combustion engine equivalent. . . . "
We're almost there. Billions of dollars are now being invested by huge companies to make their mark in this business space. They will not fail. By 2025 we'll see many BEVs on dealer lots and then we can start saying goodbye to OPEC. It's personal. I sat in gasoline lines during the 1973-74 OPEC fuel embargo and I will neither forget nor forgive.
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Electric Vehicles Could Match Gasoline Cars on Price This Year
