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46 here. I use both. Can we still keep the same strength using only machines?
Strength is exercise based. If you workout on a machine only, you will lose strength on the barbell bench press but gain strength on the machine. Likewise, if you switch from a machine to barbell bench press, you will lose strength on the machine and gain on the barbell bench press. Though, since machines fix you into a plane of motion, the strength loss from free weight to machines will be more significant than from free weights to machines.
Strength is exercise based. If you workout on a machine only, you will lose strength on the barbell bench press but gain strength on the machine. Likewise, if you switch from a machine to barbell bench press, you will lose strength on the machine and gain on the barbell bench press. Though, since machines fix you into a plane of motion, the strength loss from free weight to machines will be more significant than from free weights to machines.
Is there any scientific research behind these statements?
I fail to see how the identical exercise one done with free weights and another done on a machine but using the same actual weight would create different strength in the same individual.
Is there any scientific research behind these statements?
I fail to see how the identical exercise one done with free weights and another done on a machine but using the same actual weight would create different strength in the same individual.
Strength is exercise specific. But some exercises require more technique (and hence training). You can gain lots of weight on your bench by just improving technique (like bar path) than "actually" gaining strength. Machines fix you in a plane of motion, so there is less technique involved.
That means, gains you get on a machine will translate less well to free weight movements than when you gain the same gains on free weights and go to machines.
Similar situation to you OP. I injured my shoulder using free weights so I have moved to machines only. I miss free-weight benching, but it's too risky for me at this age.
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With regard to the difference between free weights and machine weights - I could bench 245 at my max free weights without a spotter flat on my back. People sometimes snicker at me because that it was what I claim my bench press to be and I could do about 5 reps at that safely. On machine that was well over 300. On incline 350, on decline much less. Hand position on the bar impacted how much I could lift. I have long arms - I have seen people bench 400+ with a spotter and they lift a couple inches - I have to lift a foot. You get much better results lifting free in terms of definition - the linear motion of machines seems to make the same result in our muscle tone. Don't worry about how much you bench, worry about doing it cleanly and if you can without risk I think doing less on free weights is much better than doing more on machine weights.
With regard to the difference between free weights and machine weights - I could bench 245 at my max free weights without a spotter flat on my back. People sometimes snicker at me because that it was what I claim my bench press to be and I could do about 5 reps at that safely. On machine that was well over 300. On incline 350, on decline much less. Hand position on the bar impacted how much I could lift. I have long arms - I have seen people bench 400+ with a spotter and they lift a couple inches - I have to lift a foot. You get much better results lifting free in terms of definition - the linear motion of machines seems to make the same result in our muscle tone. Don't worry about how much you bench, worry about doing it cleanly and if you can without risk I think doing less on free weights is much better than doing more on machine weights.
I don't think there are any differences in terms of definitions between using free weights vs machine. I generally recommend beginner and intermediate lifters do free weights but as you become more advanced, and need to focus on one muscle at a time (if you hope to grow it), machines are better. This on its face may seem like a contradiction. But free weights, being inherently more unstable, work a broader base of muscles in your body and thus develop your base. As you become more advanced, these movements don't yield a good stimulus to fatigue ratio.
also you can incline 350 but do flat at 300? That's unheard of. People are almost always weaker on the incline vs flat. I've known a few freaks who were about even strength on both, but never one so stronger on the incline.
I just wanted to drop in and add a strong suggestion on top of the great advice already given by WaikikiWaves and others on here. If you are finding that your shoulders aren't agreeing to bench pressing and are looking for a replacement movement that will still get you strong, I highly suggest looking into the 1/2 kneeling landmine press. It's an outstanding movement for your shoulders (both the deltoid itself and the stabilizer muscles around it), it encourages proper scapular movement, hits your core pretty well, it's relatively safe, and it will get you strong. PTs often program it for people who are recovering from shoulder injuries and the feedback I've gotten on it has always been good (it's also a staple in my program now that I'm over 50). Most decent gyms should have a landmine attachment, and even if they don't it's very easy to just put a barbell against the corner of a wall with something behind it to protect the wall.
Is there any scientific research behind these statements?
I fail to see how the identical exercise one done with free weights and another done on a machine but using the same actual weight would create different strength in the same individual.
In order for an individual muscle to safely become strong (by any decent metrics), the muscles around it must support it while it is moving through its plane of motion. Think about stabilizer engagement as critical to the progress of strengthening the muscle. The stronger the stabilizers, the stronger the target muscles can become.
I like to explain to people that there is a spectrum of exercises with decreasing to increasing stabilizer engagement that looks like this: machine-barbell-dumbell-kettlebell. This is NOT a hard and fast rule but a generalization (in other words someone will always chime in with an exception but generally speaking that's how it works). Now let's add another variable: bilateral machine-bilateral barbell-unilateral machine-bilateral dumbell-bilateral kettlebell/unilateral dumbbell-unilateral kettlebell. Again not a hard and fast rule but a generalization.
Now let's look at a concrete example of this in action: imagine a flat bench press beneath a smith machine, and then compare it to a flat bench press with a barbell. Consider how the barbell requires you to keep the bar in a straight path above your head and prevent it from moving in a plane parallel to your body (IOW from your head to toes). It's the stabilizer muscles that do that, and those stabilizer muscles would not be enganged if you were on the smith machine because the tracks stabilize it for you.
Now compare that to a bilateral dumbell bench press. Now your shoulder stabilizers are even more engaged because they need to keep the dumbells positioned in a straight path and keep them from drifting in multiple planes. If you subtract a dumbell and do a unilateral press, you are now engaging your core more, and a wider number of stabilizers.
You might wonder why I mentioned kettlebells as being more effective at engaging stabilizers than dumbells (with some exercises). When you hold a dumbell in your hand, the center of gravity of the dumbbell is right in the middle of your hand. When you hold a kettlebell in the same position (say we are using the example of bench pressing again), the center of gravity is offset and is pulling your arms outward away from each other. Kettlebells really shine this way when doing exercises like overhead presses, Turkish get ups and kettlebell armbars, the offset center of gravity really makes for good stabilizer engagement.
Well, I"m 60, so I'm over 50 - and I still do bench presses with free weights, because that's what I have available right now. But I"m doing something like 55 lbs. I wouldn't want to bench-press anything where there's a possibility of being unable to control it. At 55 lbs I know I can always dump it back over my head and avoid serious injury.
Well, I"m 60, so I'm over 50 - and I still do bench presses with free weights, because that's what I have available right now. But I"m doing something like 55 lbs. I wouldn't want to bench-press anything where there's a possibility of being unable to control it. At 55 lbs I know I can always dump it back over my head and avoid serious injury.
55 lbs as 45lb bar + 5lb on each side? If so, maybe consider deficit pushups. Will get more out of your chest workouts.
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