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I've always thought Columbia enjoyed a better reputation outside of SC than inside.
I also find this to be true. Anecdotally, when my colleagues from Washington, DC, and Boston visit Columbia, they always remark about how much they like the city. Friends of mine from out-of-state who have visited all like the city, too. I think the comments about South Carolina equating Columbia with government, and government with being bad is spot-on. The same is true for Columbia and USC relative to the USC-Clemson rivalry.
Hard to put my finger on it, but the Columbia-Charleston taunts are different, and Greenville does seem like the talented-but-obnoxious newcomer to the Palmetto State cities rivalry. Columbia vs. Charleston is rooted in history going back hundreds of years. There also seems to be more of a connection between the two cities, with Columbians traveling to the Port City for its joie de vivre and Charlestonians coming to the Capital City for, well, serious stuff. The Upstate almost seems like a separate entity from the rest of South Carolina, which also is rooted in history going back hundreds of years, so the taunts don't seem like they're coming from within the family, if that makes sense. Also, as has been said already, Charlestonians feel pity for anyone who isn't a Charlestonian.
Contrast this with Greenvillians, who seem to have a special hatred in their hearts for Columbia and Columbia alone. I rarely, if ever, see Charlestonians trolling on message boards and comments sections to trash Columbia. I'm sure it exists, but the vitriol Greenvillians actively seek to promote online (and elsewhere) about Columbia is astonishing. We all know this site has seen its share, as have others like it. Even when it is not vicious, it is aggressive. Go back to the Vista & Five Points thread and check the comments on the linked article about Columbia's art scene in the Charleston City Paper. In the first ten comments, a Greenville poster went to a Charleston website to interrupt a conversation about Columbia's art scene and to hype up Greenville's alleged superiority. Greenvillians must be short of breath with all the chest-thumping.
Ben Pitchfork Tillman ran for governor on a platform that included founding an Upstate agricultural college and shutting down then South Carolina College, which he said was a waste of taxpayer money for educating a bunch of aristocrats. The rest is history between the two schools, and the Greenville hatred for Columbia naturally followed, I guess. Charlestonians do their share of Columbia-bashing, but they are mostly just caught up their own world.
From my perspective, I've not heard many criticisms of the city of Columbia, outside of maybe general issues related to cities its size (e.g., traffic, crime, etc.), from people from other towns and cities in SC. I think Greenville gets singled out specifically because it's a peer city and Charleston thinks it's better than every city. Also, the rivalry Charleston has with Columbia is rooted in state history (i.e., status of capital and largest city shifting from Charleston to Columbia) and goes back a long ways. Greenville is more or less a newcomer to the game, so it gets a lot of attention in this regard. On a larger regional level, it's not much different than up-and-coming Charlotte and the attitude some of its residents harbor towards the long-established top dog of the region, Atlanta.
I don't see much of Charlotte v Atlanta in Charlotte. It was more common about 10 years ago but, the focus today is where the city is headed.
I grew up in upstate SC and remember there being a dismissive attitude towards Columbia. I am not sure where it originated or why but, it was always a feeling that Columbia is just a town of poor government workers and the upstate is for the wealthier crowd. Even when statistics proved otherwise, Columbia was trashed. I am not in the upstate as much now but, from talking to friends in Greenville, the attitude still exists. I understand that Clemson is programmed to look down on anything Carolina but, I am not sure that explains everything. Could still be a "I hate all things government" feeling even though Columbia's economy is much more diversified than it appears.
On this board, I was very surprised to see a core group of Greenville residents spend thousands of garbage posts trashing Columbia.
I am equally surprised when the president of Clemson makes very methodical statements to suggest that SC is a two town state trying to minimize Columbia and Carolina by association. As for Charleston, as others have stated, folks in that town think it is above all others, Charlotte, Atlanta, Greenville, Spartanburg, Columbia, LA, NYC, Boston....etc.
So, what can Columbia do? I think the city needs to create some momentum by creating a feeling that the city is growing. The city is growing but, the feeling of growth is not perpetuated as much as it is in other places. One thing Greenville does very well is promotion. The city sends out information packets to the media and the News has sections devoted to downtown. Greenville seems to have an environment of making growth seem perpetual. Columbia could learn a little from Greenville in this regard.
Columbia could utilize federal grants as much as possible for street scapes and possibly to help obtain tax credit for center city developments. This would allow developers to construct buildings that are marginally attractive, maybe a retail center downtown.
And, the city could turn Assembly into a showcase boulevard. This is internal but, it would make a huge impact. Maybe part of the answer is to ignore unwarranted criticisms and focus on what can be changed.
I don't see much of Charlotte v Atlanta in Charlotte. It was more common about 10 years ago but, the focus today is where the city is headed.
Nah, it's much more common now since the two cities are competing more (e.g., NASCAR HOF, Chiquita, etc.) and have some similar projects going on (e.g., streetcar). I'm not saying it's a pervasive attitude, but it's there. Anyway, we digress.
I've lived in the Houston area for going on 7 years now, and in some ways, Houston reminds me a bit of Columbia. You talk about a town that, historically, has gotten no love from the national media, Houston is the poster child. It's hot, flat, featureless, and lack of zoning has created, to put it nicely, an interesting cityscape. People in Austin and Dallas routinely turn up their noses at the mere mention of Houston. And, this town doesn't exactly excel in the arena of self-promotion. But they have something here that's in ever-decreasing supply elsewhere: jobs. You won't find a more business-friendly town than Houston. And that's given the city invaluable press over the last few years. My take: Columbia leaders should quit visiting Greenville's Main Street and pay a visit here to see how business should get done.
I've lived in the Houston area for going on 7 years now, and in some ways, Houston reminds me a bit of Columbia. You talk about a town that, historically, has gotten no love from the national media, Houston is the poster child. It's hot, flat, featureless, and lack of zoning has created, to put it nicely, an interesting cityscape. People in Austin and Dallas routinely turn up their noses at the mere mention of Houston. And, this town doesn't exactly excel in the arena of self-promotion. But they have something here that's in ever-decreasing supply elsewhere: jobs. You won't find a more business-friendly town than Houston. And that's given the city invaluable press over the last few years. My take: Columbia leaders should quit visiting Greenville's Main Street and pay a visit here to see how business should get done.
You are right........Greenville has done a great job with Main St. However, Columbia is a completely different city. While it can learn from a lot of cities, it has to apply what will work to Columbia. And, funny thing is, Columbia is doing very well. There is an abundance of construction now and in the pipeline, Main St. is reclaiming what it once was, Class A office space is in the single digits, hotel room rates are increasing and the Vista is developing with construction in all corners.
The media is an interesting bunch. Very few people in the media actually understand economics and development. They are easily persuaded by marketing and hype. I was talking to a business writer about SC once and questioned numbers that in no way were true. During the discussion, I mentioned Columbia as growing fast and only after showing them the numbers did they get it.
And, I would throw Charlotte into the group who receives little attention. For years, we watched as the media and national retailers could not get enough of Raleigh. Stores opened there in droves before even thinking about Charlotte. Whole Foods just opened last year in Charlotte. So, even with a metro of 2.3m and high incomes, retailers and media members always looked at Raleigh. Raleigh is growing fast and will continue to grow but, the media drew a picture of a stagnant city (Charlotte) and one growing in leaps. There have been more than a few stories about when Raleigh would become larger than Charlotte.
A few years ago I talked with a homeless man who had just arrived in town from Charlotte. I asked him what he thought of Columbia so far. He said, "It's a big ol' town. I like it." Columbia is big-boned. As it continues to fill out and replaces its "missing teeth," to use the phrase a San Francisco urban planner used at the recent Urban Land Institute conference here, more people will see what a big ol' town it really is.
Meanwhile, in addition to the St. Patrick's Day Festival in Five Points and the Tatoo Arts Festival at the convention center in the Vista, 3,000 young soccer players will be all over the metro this weekend from several states. The State says the event is drawing twice the number it drew last year, apparently because the word about the Midlands' hospitality is spreading.
You are right........Greenville has done a great job with Main St. However, Columbia is a completely different city. While it can learn from a lot of cities, it has to apply what will work to Columbia.
Maybe someone can tell me why they think Columbia leaders came to Greenville..? I think it's mighty interesting to think that Columbia had nothing to learn from Greenville. I think everyone has room to grow, and yes some others get different things more right. This might be the most interesting piece of insight from this thread- Columbia boosters' view of themselves and their instate peers.
One good thing about Columbia is that its police department just won best drug suppression team in the nation after being in existence for only two years.
"With only just over two years of existence, the Columbia Police Department's Drug Suppression Team, (DST) travels to Tulsa, Oklahoma to receive the 2012 National Award of Best Street Level Narcotic Team in the Nation."
[quote=gvillesc;28677492]Maybe someone can tell me why they think Columbia leaders came to Greenville..? I think it's mighty interesting to think that Columbia had nothing to learn from Greenville. I think everyone has room to grow, and yes some others get different things more right. This might be the most interesting piece of insight from this thread- Columbia boosters' view of themselves and their instate peers.[
They visited once, as they should.
I was actually surprised about the responses to my comment about the beer guy. I wrote it because it provided a little color to the new establishment but, my thoughts were confirmed. Charleston is Charleston, they have had a lofty attitude for centuries. But, I have always been surprised and at the cheap shots about Columbia from folks in positions as high as the president of Clemson. I am still not sure I understand why. I get the government/Carolina thing but, there is more to it than that. Gsupstate spent thousands of posts on this board bashing Columbia, Greenville spent many posts on here with an attitude of "we are rich, Columbia is poor" , some from Greenville looked at a cracked sidewalk and commented on how Greenville is better. My friends in Greenville tell me stories about talking to folks at restaurants and hearing racial comments about Columbia. So, I think it is interesting that peope are not disputing the observations on this bread but, trying to deflect.
Maybe it is a bad question that can't be answered.
It is inter
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