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I don't know what "torso-guy" means or is in reference to; but we are all responsible to seek after God. If we are truly seeking Him in humility, He will not hide Himself from us.
The post I was responding to said the torso of someone was found in the UK and dated to around the time of Christ. Imagining whoever this torso belonged to, it's hard to see how the resurrection had any efficacy to that person, since it would require religious faith in the resurrection about which he knew nothing.
Of course that it was during the time of Jesus isn't really the point, other than that it adds some extra irony.
Missionaries used to visit our church and tell campfire stories about natives attacking them and then suddenly running away because they saw angels guarding the house and suchlike. So I suppose you're saying that if any random person in history with no access to scriptures or adjacent things like the sacrements or whatever would get direct revelation on request?
the literal individual torso of a person who was born, lived, died in Ireland 2000 years ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
The post I was responding to said the torso of someone was found in the UK and dated to around the time of Christ. Imagining whoever this torso belonged to, it's hard to see how the resurrection had any efficacy to that person, since it would require religious faith in the resurrection about which he knew nothing.
Of course that it was during the time of Jesus isn't really the point, other than that it adds some extra irony.
Got it, thanks. If "torso-guy" had wanted salvation/union with God above all things, I'm quite certain God would have made a way to grant his desire.
How many of us desire salvation/union with God above all things? What are the chances "torso-guy" did?
I recently read an article about how a mummified torso of a man living in Ireland was discovered. The torso dated back to 2,000 years ago.
Can you imagine....thousands, even millions of people living in the same time period as Jesus? I wonder what religion they followed. What their beliefs were. What did they think of the afterlife. Did they convert to Christianity? If so, when and what convinced them?
It makes me curious... how come we have physical evidence of things that existed 2,000 years (or more) ago but nothing from anything that was in direct contact with Jesus? eg: the bodies of any of his disciples? or any artifacts that were used by any of His followers?
But it also makes me wonder....it amazes me how a person who could be living in a whole nother country could be living their regular life when something extraordinary and miraculous is happening thousands of miles away.
All societies have their own dedicated religious types of people though
In the Middle East as in Ireland there would have been the same thing of many people living pretty boring every day lives and then the religious doing their own religious stuff of being priestly, scribes, prophets, seers, etc
They are just called/named differently according to the different time or region
It's hard to imagine a scenario where someone in Ireland during the 1st Century would have even had a slight possibility of ever hearing of Jesus Christ, let alone know anything about his ministry.
Got it, thanks. If "torso-guy" had wanted salvation/union with God above all things, I'm quite certain God would have made a way to grant his desire.
How many of us desire salvation/union with God above all things? What are the chances "torso-guy" did?
This is just another way of saying that it was the fault of all those people who died without revelation of god because of where or when they were born. Sufficient desire would have given them a miracle because god is always waiting for the phone to ring, but alas, no one ever calls.
I don't know if my formerly religious self qualifies by your notion of wanting god above all else or in some other unusual way (probably not, despite 30 years of sincere attempts) but my guess is that this system of redemption is pretty inefficient as it allows millions to come and go without a clue, if it's true that even people who make some effort in god's direction aren't met halfway unless someone opens up a parish in the neighborhood, and probably not even then.
It's hard to imagine a scenario where someone in Ireland during the 1st Century would have even had a slight possibility of ever hearing of Jesus Christ, let alone know anything about his ministry.
Lots of things are hard to imagine, especially for a generation so lacking in imagination.
This is just another way of saying that it was the fault of all those people who died without revelation of god because of where or when they were born. Sufficient desire would have given them a miracle because god is always waiting for the phone to ring, but alas, no one ever calls.
I don't know if my formerly religious self qualifies by your notion of wanting god above all else or in some other unusual way (probably not, despite 30 years of sincere attempts) but my guess is that this system of redemption is pretty inefficient as it allows millions to come and go without a clue, if it's true that even people who make some effort in god's direction aren't met halfway unless someone opens up a parish in the neighborhood, and probably not even then.
If anyone ends up in hell, yes it is 100% his own fault.
What would you be willing to give up in order to experience union with God? Or perhaps the better question: what wouldn't you be willing to give up? This is a question I try to ask myself regularly.
For the sake of argument that the guy to whom this torso belonged was alive while Jesus walked the earth just a heroe's journey away ... what I always used to wonder is, yeah, if millions of people in that period had zero chance of hearing even rumors of what was going on in the Holy Land, what use was it to them? There's a convoluted subplot about how righteous Jews during the OT era were kept in an anteroom in the underworld called "Abraham's bosom" until such time as Jesus' death and resurrection could allow them into heaven, but what about some random druid in what's now the UK, or some random hunter-gatherer in the steppes of whatever-a-stan? I mean, Christianity is certainly a very exclusive club even today, since two thirds of the world isn't even culturally Christian, much less via actual belief.
All of this ties in very nicely to the message of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that 99% of the world's population isn't even interested in hearing.
It's hard to imagine a scenario where someone in Ireland during the 1st Century would have even had a slight possibility of ever hearing of Jesus Christ, let alone know anything about his ministry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
Lots of things are hard to imagine, especially for a generation so lacking in imagination.
I have no idea what your post means.
The question is how would a first century Irishman have heard about Jesus.
It's hard to imagine a scenario where someone in Ireland during the 1st Century would have even had a slight possibility of ever hearing of Jesus Christ, let alone know anything about his ministry.
You've got a point there - after all the 'King James Bible' didn't exist till 1400 some-odd years later!
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