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A Psalm of David. Yahweh said to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”........
One of the main objectives God has, is to make an end to what He calls His "enemies". Now according to statistics, there are over 2 billion Christians on the planet. And we know among us, we view the faith in varying ways. However I would say most of us haven't incorporated this particular objective as a part of our daily life. That is subduing God's enemies. So for discussion, I'm going to lay out three particular enemies with this topic.
1. The satan/devil, the divine rebel.
2. Sin, imperfection, corruption, being off God's original design
3. Death
There may be more enemies than this, but I believe these are the three primary ones. So ultimately I believe when it comes to being a Christian/believer on this side, one of our objectives is to allow God to work through us to subdue these three enemies in the world. When I think about how God created the world in the beginning, and He spoke to humanity to multiply on the earth and subdue it, the world at that time wasn't fallen. God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden, and that was their starting point. In the Garden, heaven and earth overlapped. Adam and Eve were able to communicate with animals, they saw cherubs (spiritual beings), and we know there were trees with very unique properties. (Tree of Life, Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil) In the Garden, work didn't cause us to sweat, and out of the Garden there was a river that went forth to water the whole earth. All of this confirms this Garden was a special place, holy ground. In my estimation, Adam and Eve's original mission was to take this overlapping of heaven and earth, and spread it throughout the whole world. To make the whole earth be like the Garden of Eden. However it was here, where we had the introduction of the first enemy. The divine rebel!!!
This rebel convinced Eve to go against God, and become their own gods, being able to judge good and evil for themselves. Because Eve fell for this deception, and Adam following her lead, this created the second enemy, sin. Both Adam and Eve were no longer the flawless creations God originally made them to be, but now their thinking was off the mark. They became ashamed of their bodies in front of one another and covered themselves. They became afraid of God, who sought relationship with them. Everything about them and their bodies, no longer operated like it did prior. So God came and searched for Adam and Eve, and when He found them, He had to issue judgment. This led to the introduction of the third enemy, death. Humanity was created from the dust, and now he was condemned to return to the dust. Death is like de-creation, a return to chaos. (See Genesis 1:2)
To sum up, God in the beginning molded a good creation. He rested from His work on the seventh day, calling it very good. However three enemies were introduced shortly thereafter, threatening and dragging the entire world back to being formless and void. Thus, God has gone back to work, and was working right up until the time of Jesus. Jesus made a way for all three enemies (and every enemy if there are more) to be defeated and done away with. Our Father then received Jesus back into heaven and Jesus sat on the right side of His throne. In Jesus, God is now working through us to subdue the world and these enemies. Just like God told Adam and Eve to subdue the world, Jesus has given us the commission to to subdue the world in His name and preach the good news to the ends of the earth.
With all that said, this leads me to human understanding and how it gets in the way of God's objective. And when I say human understanding, I'm basically speaking to what we consider to be natural thinking. We call it our flesh, which perhaps in scientific terms speaks to our evolutionary thought processes. The way we understand things through our five senses and our reasonings. (Physical intellect)......
When we look at how things were in the beginning, Adam and Eve lived in a paradise. They had food, they had relationship, even work itself was easy. In essence, they had freedom. The only thing they couldn't do, was eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This is human understanding in a nut shell......
WHY CAN'T WE EAT FROM THAT TREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So even though from every other tree Adam and Eve could, not only eat, but FREELY eat, current human understanding has a problem with being denied a simple thing. What God's command represents is a rule, and that rule was not to be broken, or else judgment would come. Our human understanding has a problem with there being rules. Even a rule as simple as not eating from one tree, out of all the trees in the Garden and in the world for that matter. (Including the other special tree, the Tree of Life.) We see this rule as being denied something, and if we are denied something, then we are not truly free. Its this human feeling of not being free, that God wants to conform us in a certain way, that makes us want to fight against God. So with our physical intellect, we will always be at war with God, as Romans 8: 7-8 states............
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God........
How many of you ever seen the movie "Pleasantville" starring Tobey Maguire? Back in the day, the movie would come on tv every so often, particularly after Maguire became more mainstream with the Spiderman movies. As for myself, I never watched the movie from start to finish, but I've seen bits and pieces of it and know how it ends. Essentially the movie is about two teens being transported into a television sitcom known as Pleasantville, which was a black and white sitcom from the 1950s. Now in this world, everything of course is black and white and life is perfect. Its a perfect world! Yet with the introduction of Tobey's character (and his sister), they began introducing ideas into this world that was foreign to the people of Pleasantville. Over time with each new idea and "rebellious" act, the world began to change, and color was introduced. Here's a trailer......
So you can get a pretty good idea from the trailer what the movie is about. Yet look at the message. You have a perfect world and everything is good. However, these two brat teenagers come in and mess everything up with their "knowledge" of how to do things. And each time they change the way the people in Pleasantville think, color is introduced. I would say the subliminal message with this movie is, perfection is boring and drab (black and white), while rebellion is exciting and where it's at. (colorful) This is how human intellect see God's perfect world. They see it really as bondage, and true freedom is in rebelling against His ways.
Now, how many of you have seen the first Matrix film? This movie borrows a lot from different religious beliefs and what have you, but a dominant perception dealing with the main character Neo, is that he is seen as a savior of mankind who will free them from the machines. At the end of the movie, we have this scene where Neo is talking to someone on the phone. Presumably he is talking to the one who created the Matrix..........
Again, there is a subliminal message showing rebellion is cool and it leads to true freedom. Neo claims he will show the people a world without boundaries, and Neo shows what that looks like by being able to take off and fly. This is the thinking of the carnal mind because who wants to submit to God's ways of thinking. Most people decide for themselves what is good and what is evil. We don't want no one telling us what to do. People smoke because it makes them feel good, in spite of knowing it's harms. We over eat, because the food tastes good. We are passionate about these things. Anyone telling us different is seen as taking away our freedom. We then see ourselves as slaves, like those caught in the Matrix if you will.
With one last movie I want to present, I find this thought interesting because the ideas presented here show us our knack for rebellion. Shows us how we paint perfection as a bad thing, particularly God's perfect world as a terrible thing. Let's take a look at Star Wars. Now if I were to overlay a view of Christianity with themes in this film, would the good guys be more comparable with God, or would God be more comparable with the bad guys? If you do a deep dive comparison, it is actually the bad guys who conform more to representation of God. This may shock you, but think about it. Anakin Skywalker is known (Particularly in the prequels) as a fulfillment of one who would bring balance to "the Force". So Anakin is seen as a Messiah figure, comparable to Jesus. The Emperor, who most at face value would compare to Satan, controls the entire galaxy, and he often rules from a place hidden from the public (so he is rarely seen). This is a picture of God the Father. God the Father rules all creation, and no one (human) has seen His face. When we look at Emperor Palpatine's army (the clone army), they are all clean cut, orderly. (In the original three films, almost all of the clone army is clothed in white armor)
When we look at the good guys of Star Wars franchise, they are known as being a part of the "Rebellion". So again, we have the rebellion as being a good concept. Now what really did it for me was in Star Wars Revenge of the Sith, we have the final confrontation between Obi-Wan and Anakin Skywalker......
So again Anakin is seen as a messiah figure, one who would bring balance to the force. A lot of religious beliefs have messiah or savior like figures, but something Anakin said to Obi-Wan here really caught my ears. Even as a teen when I first heard this, something about it didn't quite sit right with me. Anakin tells Obi-Wan that if he wasn't with him, then he was his enemy. Then Obi-Wan replies, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". When I first heard it, I actually wondered about that. Dealing in absolutes is evil? (You know, because the Sith are the evil characters in this film) Yet now as a more mature believer, when I take what Anakin stated, it is almost a direct quote of what Jesus says in Matthew 12:30.......
He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
That confirmed for me that Anakin is a parallel to Jesus, Emperor Palpatine is a parallel to God the Father, and that the good jedi and all the good characters of this film, are to be paralleled with the devil his rebellion. Also in this scene, you see Anakin chokes his wife Padme and mistreats her. Padme would represent the church. Obi-Wan again would represent the devil and his rebellion, being viewed as a savior from the evil empire. (God's perfect world)
Let me know your thoughts with all this and lets discuss. Of course I use these movies as showing the idea how human understanding fights against God. The flesh fights against the idea of following God's laws and commands. It doesn't see them as freedom (when God said we could freely eat of every tree in the Garden), it sees God's laws as slavery (when God said not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil) If we have this mindset, we are and will be fighting against God and His objectives of putting an end to all His enemies.
Since that post is WAY too long to read: What do you really want to discuss, summed up in one or two sentences?
Well, I could understand if it were just one big wall of text. Yet this is not truly a long post at all. If you don't want to read (or skim through it), then you have the freedom not to. Yet for proper discussion, it would greatly benefit doing some reading over the main points. Good discussion can't be had through two sentences.
Besides, I got some clips here to make things interesting.
Edit: If you want, let me know what your think are the objectives of Christianity, and I'll let you know if that is what I discussed in the OP.
Last edited by Heavenese; 04-16-2024 at 11:26 AM..
Since that post is WAY too long to read: What do you really want to discuss, summed up in one or two sentences?
Yep, I thought it was a very long post and I read through to here:-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
Psalm 110: 1 states........
A Psalm of David. Yahweh said to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”........
One of the main objectives God has, is to make an end to what He calls His "enemies". Now according to statistics, there are over 2 billion Christians on the planet. And we know among us, we view the faith in varying ways. However I would say most of us haven't incorporated this particular objective as a part of our daily life. That is subduing God's enemies. So for discussion, I'm going to lay out three particular enemies with this topic.
1. The satan/devil, the divine rebel.
2. Sin, imperfection, corruption, being off God's original design
3. Death
There may be more enemies than this, but I believe these are the three primary ones.
So ultimately I believe when it comes to being a Christian/believer on this side, one of our objectives is to allow God to work through us to subdue these three enemies in the world.<snip>
And I agree that God is working through His people
Yep, I thought it was a very long post and I read through to here:-
And I agree that God is working through His people
God has no "enemies." That is the interpretation and understanding of primitive savages. Our objective is to subdue our selfishness and self-centeredness through agape love, NOT anyone else, IMO.
God has no "enemies." That is the interpretation and understanding of primitive savages. Our objective is to subdue our selfishness and self-centeredness through agape love, NOT anyone else, IMO.
I agree with you however I’m looking at it relationally through the creation (not just about us individually)
It’s about the channelling and there is the identification and connections made (and ones that also need to be broken) relationally up above (God) and down below man and also our peers, and it’s in their own time/level/region, when we are ready……
If God is this
Gal 5:22**But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23**Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Would His enemies be this?
Gal 5:19**Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20**Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21**Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
And the (ultimate) aim is to overcome those things? While still taking into account our various differences in individuality and personality and various human society
''To sum up, God in the beginning molded a good creation. He rested from His work on the seventh day, calling it very good.''
My reply isn't exactly on your topic, but you did make the above comment, to which I'm replying. Only the first Genesis creation story has God making a 'good creation' where he got it right the first time. However, in the second Genesis creation story God had to experiment a bit before getting it right. Whereas in the first creation story God simply spoke everything into existence and it was good, in the second creation story, God didn't speak Adam and Eve into existence but made them out of clay and a rib (for the woman). But here's the thing . . .the woman was the result of God's failed attempt to find a mate for the man from the animals he created after he realized that Adam and . . .let's say, a hippopotamus weren't compatible. So then God made another attempt and got it right with the woman. If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again. Ahh, woman . . .yay, God!
''To sum up, God in the beginning molded a good creation. He rested from His work on the seventh day, calling it very good.''
My reply isn't exactly on your topic, but you did make the above comment, to which I'm replying. Only the first Genesis creation story has God making a 'good creation' where he got it right the first time. However, in the second Genesis creation story God had to experiment a bit before getting it right. Whereas in the first creation story God simply spoke everything into existence and it was good, in the second creation story, God didn't speak Adam and Eve into existence but made them out of clay and a rib (for the woman). But here's the thing . . .the woman was the result of God's failed attempt to find a mate for the man from the animals he created after he realized that Adam and . . .let's say, a hippopotamus weren't compatible. So then God made another attempt and got it right with the woman. If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again. Ahh, woman . . .yay, God!
I think it is on topic
There is an ultimate which is both within and above ‘creation’
In my opinion neither creation account is sequential or literal as history about the purely physical, natural creation
They both are describing processes as if they had happened before they happen relating to human types of society, and it seems that the 1st creation account is the ‘spiritual’ type and the 2nd is the ‘earthly’ type, and this aligns with the huge difference in the ‘spoken’ and the ‘written’ word/logos of God/Theos (that gets argued over on this forum) which work together at different levels
Written =law
Spoken = apart from the law, it’s moral
Edit: Another thing comes to mind is about the 1st/last flip Jesus refers to and what remains (ultimately)
There is an ultimate which is both within and above creation
In my opinion neither creation account is sequential or literal as history
They both are describing processes as if they had happened before they happen and it seems that the 1st creation account is the ‘spiritual’ type and the 2nd is the ‘earthly’ type, and this aligns with the huge difference in the ‘spoken’ and the ‘written’
Written =law
Spoken = apart from the law
The 'first' creation account, Genesis one, is believed to have actually been written later than the creation account in Genesis two. Of course neither story is historically literal. Both generally follow the motif of the ancient Near East culture.
The 'first' creation account, Genesis one, is believed to have actually been written later than the creation account in Genesis two. Of course neither story is historically literal. Both generally follow the motif of the ancient Near East culture.
Yep, I agree
The ancients in different regions were exploring social ideas I think and writing them down….
And I think there was awareness and interactions between the other cultures too, I just don’t see that they were cut off from each other as we tend to think
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come in and mess everything up with their "knowledge" of how to do things. And each time they change the way the people in Pleasantville think, color is introduced. I would say the subliminal message with this movie is, perfection is boring and drab (black and white), while rebellion is exciting and where it's at. (colorful) This is how human intellect see God's perfect world. They see it really as bondage, and true freedom is in rebelling against His ways.
