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As we know, the concluding message in that story is that God knows better than we do. Faith in God requires one to accept this, and yet it continues to bother me that we often are not given the specific purpose behind terrible things that happen for no apparent reason. Is it that we couldn't possibly understand or is it simply because God doesn't have to explain Himself?
If Job was already considered righteous and upright, then why did he have to lose everything? What did this accomplish?
Job 42:10-13 - The LORD restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the LORD increased all that Job had twofold. 11 Then all his brothers and all his sisters and all who had known him before came to him, and they ate bread with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversities that the LORD had brought on him. And each one gave him one piece of money, and each a ring of gold. 12 The LORD blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; and he had 14,000 sheep and 6,000 camels and 1,000 yoke of oxen and 1,000 female donkeys.
God just doesn't know better than we know , He is higher than we are and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. He doesn't have to answer to us.
Job got a direct revelation from the Lord, and got a new perspective.
God knew Job would pass the test. When Job got into eternity, how good does he feel knowing that he stayed faithful to God during that time of trial?
As we know, the concluding message in that story is that God knows better than we do. Faith in God requires one to accept this, and yet it continues to bother me that we often are not given the specific purpose behind terrible things that happen for no apparent reason. Is it that we couldn't possibly understand or is it simply because God doesn't have to explain Himself?
I have heard Christians assert both of those "explanations". Others I have seen suggest that there is hidden sin or some other avenue of access for Satan to cause problems, or that god is in some way "testing" a person or building character / growing hair on their chest or something. The equivocations are basically never-ending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrestores
If Job was already considered righteous and upright, then why did he have to lose everything? What did this accomplish?
The whole book of Job is based on a wager between God and Satan. So the purpose was for god to win the wager. Satan's wager was that Job would curse god if god took away all the blessings He had given Job. So there was no "reason" for Job's suffering other than god not losing face with ol' slewfoot. Couple of super-beings toying with Job like an insect.
It is one of the many religious stories/narratives that the Jews kept and put into the collection of their religious writings about the ancient prophetic understanding of higher purpose in the social world that was to be in their future
This was not about any individual Job then, at that time - it is prophetic
It has the classic start of a story using names
Job 1:1**There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job 1:2**And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
Job means
H347 (Strong)
אִיּוֹב
'ı̂yôb
ee-yobe'
From H340; hated (that is, persecuted); Job, the patriarch famous for his patience: - Job.
What parent was going to name their child hated/persecuted any way?
As we know, the concluding message in that story is that God knows better than we do. Faith in God requires one to accept this, and yet it continues to bother me that we often are not given the specific purpose behind terrible things that happen for no apparent reason. Is it that we couldn't possibly understand or is it simply because God doesn't have to explain Himself?
If Job was already considered righteous and upright, then why did he have to lose everything? What did this accomplish?
Quote:
God just doesn't know better than we know , He is higher than we are and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. He doesn't have to answer to us.
Yes.
It was God's will that Job go through what he went through. Job tells us what he learned as a result.
Job 42
Then Job answered the Lord and said,
2 “I know that You can do all things,
And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.
3 ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.”
4 ‘Hear, now, and I will speak;
I will ask You, and You instruct me.’
5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear;
But now my eye sees You;
6 Therefore I retract,
And I repent in dust and ashes.” NAS
Job grew in his relationship with God.
We can also learn through what Job suffered.
James tells believers:
James 5
7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until [d]it gets the early and late rains. 8 You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. 9 Do not [e]complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing [f]right at the [g]door. 10 As an example, brethren, of suffering and patience, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the [h]endurance of Job and have seen the [i]outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful. NAS
The lesson I get is that we need to learn to trust God in all circumstances, even if we have done nothing wrong and even if we don't understand the reasons why. Our faith is being developed as we endure. We are to have faith in our Creator in all things.
At the table with the Sons of God God pointed out how faithful Job was and Satan came and told God Job would turn away if he suffered enough that his faithfulness would falter.God knew Job would remain fathful The test was on the only thing Satan was not allowed to do was kill him. Job remained faithful and God rewarded him tenfold.Job didn't do anything to deserve the suffering it was a test of faith and he was Gods champion and he prevailed.
7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until [d]it gets the early and late rains. 8 You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. 9 Do not [e]complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing [f]right at the [g]door. 10 As an example, brethren, of suffering and patience, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the [h]endurance of Job and have seen the [i]outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful. NAS
Here is a wonderful conversation between John and Jesus concerning The story of Job.
It's Long but worth it. 6. The Misunderstanding of Suffering—
Discourse on Job
148:6.1 (1662.3) It was this same evening at Bethsaida that John also asked Jesus why so many apparently innocent people suffered from so many diseases and experienced so many afflictions. In answering John’s questions, among many other things, the Master said:
148:6.2 (1662.4) “My son, you do not comprehend the meaning of adversity or the mission of suffering. Have you not read that masterpiece of Semitic literature—the Scripture story of the afflictions of Job? Do you not recall how this wonderful parable begins with the recital of the material prosperity of the Lord’s servant? You well remember that Job was blessed with children, wealth, dignity, position, health, and everything else which men value in this temporal life. According to the time-honored teachings of the children of Abraham such material prosperity was all-sufficient evidence of divine favor. But such material possessions and such temporal prosperity do not indicate God’s favor. My Father in heaven loves the poor just as much as the rich; he is no respecter of persons.
148:6.3 (1663.1) “Although transgression of divine law is sooner or later followed by the harvest of punishment, while men certainly eventually do reap what they sow, still you should know that human suffering is not always a punishment for antecedent sin. Both Job and his friends failed to find the true answer for their perplexities. And with the light you now enjoy you would hardly assign to either Satan or God the parts they play in this unique parable. While Job did not, through suffering, find the resolution of his intellectual troubles or the solution of his philosophical difficulties, he did achieve great victories; even in the very face of the breakdown of his theological defenses he ascended to those spiritual heights where he could sincerely say, ‘I abhor myself’; then was there granted him the salvation of a vision of God. So even through misunderstood suffering, Job ascended to the superhuman plane of moral understanding and spiritual insight. When the suffering servant obtains a vision of God, there follows a soul peace which passes all human understanding.
148:6.4 (1663.2) “The first of Job’s friends, Eliphaz, exhorted the sufferer to exhibit in his afflictions the same fortitude he had prescribed for others during the days of his prosperity. Said this false comforter: ‘Trust in your religion, Job; remember that it is the wicked and not the righteous who suffer. You must deserve this punishment, else you would not be afflicted. You well know that no man can be righteous in God’s sight. You know that the wicked never really prosper. Anyway, man seems predestined to trouble, and perhaps the Lord is only chastising you for your own good.’ No wonder poor Job failed to get much comfort from such an interpretation of the problem of human suffering.
148:6.5 (1663.3) “But the counsel of his second friend, Bildad, was even more depressing, notwithstanding its soundness from the standpoint of the then accepted theology. Said Bildad: ‘God cannot be unjust. Your children must have been sinners since they perished; you must be in error, else you would not be so afflicted. And if you are really righteous, God will certainly deliver you from your afflictions. You should learn from the history of God’s dealings with man that the Almighty destroys only the wicked.’
148:6.6 (1663.4) “And then you remember how Job replied to his friends, saying: ‘I well know that God does not hear my cry for help. How can God be just and at the same time so utterly disregard my innocence? I am learning that I can get no satisfaction from appealing to the Almighty. Cannot you discern that God tolerates the persecution of the good by the wicked? And since man is so weak, what chance has he for consideration at the hands of an omnipotent God? God has made me as I am, and when he thus turns upon me, I am defenseless. And why did God ever create me just to suffer in this miserable fashion?’
148:6.7 (1663.5) “And who can challenge the attitude of Job in view of the counsel of his friends and the erroneous ideas of God which occupied his own mind? Do you not see that Job longed for a human God, that he hungered to commune with a divine Being who knows man’s mortal estate and understands that the just must often suffer in innocence as a part of this first life of the long Paradise ascent? Wherefore has the Son of Man come forth from the Father to live such a life in the flesh that he will be able to comfort and succor all those who must henceforth be called upon to endure the afflictions of Job.
148:6.8 (1663.6) “Job’s third friend, Zophar, then spoke still less comforting words when he said: ‘You are foolish to claim to be righteous, seeing that you are thus afflicted. But I admit that it is impossible to comprehend God’s ways. Perhaps there is some hidden purpose in all your miseries.’ And when Job had listened to all three of his friends, he appealed directly to God for help, pleading the fact that ‘man, born of woman, is few of days and full of trouble.’
148:6.9 (1664.1) “Then began the second session with his friends. Eliphaz grew more stern, accusing, and sarcastic. Bildad became indignant at Job’s contempt for his friends. Zophar reiterated his melancholy advice. Job by this time had become disgusted with his friends and appealed again to God, and now he appealed to a just God against the God of injustice embodied in the philosophy of his friends and enshrined even in his own religious attitude. Next Job took refuge in the consolation of a future life in which the inequities of mortal existence may be more justly rectified. Failure to receive help from man drives Job to God. Then ensues the great struggle in his heart between faith and doubt. Finally, the human sufferer begins to see the light of life; his tortured soul ascends to new heights of hope and courage; he may suffer on and even die, but his enlightened soul now utters that cry of triumph, ‘My Vindicator lives!’
148:6.10 (1664.2) “Job was altogether right when he challenged the doctrine that God afflicts children in order to punish their parents. Job was ever ready to admit that God is righteous, but he longed for some soul-satisfying revelation of the personal character of the Eternal. And that is our mission on earth. No more shall suffering mortals be denied the comfort of knowing the love of God and understanding the mercy of the Father in heaven. While the speech of God spoken from the whirlwind was a majestic concept for the day of its utterance, you have already learned that the Father does not thus reveal himself, but rather that he speaks within the human heart as a still, small voice, saying, ‘This is the way; walk therein.’ Do you not comprehend that God dwells within you, that he has become what you are that he may make you what he is!”
148:6.11 (1664.3) Then Jesus made this final statement: “The Father in heaven does not willingly afflict the children of men. Man suffers, first, from the accidents of time and the imperfections of the evil of an immature physical existence. Next, he suffers the inexorable consequences of sin—the transgression of the laws of life and light. And finally, man reaps the harvest of his own iniquitous persistence in rebellion against the righteous rule of heaven on earth. But man’s miseries are not a personal visitation of divine judgment. Man can, and will, do much to lessen his temporal sufferings. But once and for all be delivered from the superstition that God afflicts man at the behest of the evil one. Study the Book of Job just to discover how many wrong ideas of God even good men may honestly entertain; and then note how even the painfully afflicted Job found the God of comfort and salvation in spite of such erroneous teachings. At last his faith pierced the clouds of suffering to discern the light of life pouring forth from the Father as healing mercy and everlasting righteousness.”
148:6.12 (1664.4) John pondered these sayings in his heart for many days. His entire afterlife was markedly changed as a result of this conversation with the Master in the garden, and he did much, in later times, to cause the other apostles to change their viewpoints regarding the source, nature, and purpose of commonplace human afflictions. But John never spoke of this conference until after the Master had departed.
Last edited by RockyRoadg; 04-14-2024 at 12:00 PM..
Jesus Christ, the perfect man, the Only Begotten Son of God, had to endure suffering. Suffering is a part of God's plan and design which results in good. For example, the scriptures teach that Jesus learned obedience through His suffering.
Hebrews 5.
7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal (aionion) salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
The apostle James teaches:
James 1
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything
The apostle Peter teaches:
1 Peter 4:1
4 Therefore, since Christ has [a]suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because the one who has [b]suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for human lusts, but for the will of God...
12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though something strange were happening to you; 13 but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that at the revelation of His glory you may also rejoice and be overjoyed. 14 If you are insulted [k]for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory, and of God, rests upon you
The apostle Paul
2 Cor. 1
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. 5 For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. 6 If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.
Philippians 3
7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.
God bless.
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