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"I know, I don't like me either"
(set 21 days ago)
Location: Miami-Dade
160 posts, read 62,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424
What does any of that have to do with Jesus / Christianity?
I know it's an Old Testament book, but I was looking for specifically Christian perspectives that I am familiar with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL-5
He was considered righteous but he was still vulnerable to the devil because he lived his life in fear. Job said the thing he feared most had happened. When you live in fear , you give power to the enemy.
But do we know that he was no longer fearful by the end of this story? The narrator suggests that this specific trial was the end of his troubles, but fear is a natural part of the human condition and knowing that anything could happen at anytime for any reason is a scary thought.
What does any of that have to do with Jesus / Christianity?
The challenge found at Job 2:4-5.
Satan challenges ' touch one's flesh......' (Loose physical health) and No one would serve God under bad conditions.
Both Job and Jesus proved faithful to God under adverse conditions. ( and so can we )
....If Job was already considered righteous and upright, then why did he have to lose everything? What did this accomplish?
It accomplished that Satan's challenge ( Job 2:4-5 ) was wrong.
Satan challenged that under adverse conditions that No one would prove faithful to God.
Both righteous-and-upright Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar because under adverse conditions both proved faithful to God.
At the table with the Sons of God God pointed out how faithful Job was and Satan came and told God Job would turn away if he suffered enough that his faithfulness would falter.God knew Job would remain fathful The test was on the only thing Satan was not allowed to do was kill him. Job remained faithful and God rewarded him tenfold.Job didn't do anything to deserve the suffering it was a test of faith and he was Gods champion and he prevailed.
..
Since we are all created with free-will choices then 'No' God did Not know Job's outcome.
Job and Jesus too remained faithful to God out of their own free-will choice.
Adam proved unfaithful under perfect conditions (Eden)
Job and Jesus proved faithful under adverse conditions thus also showing No reason for Adam to be unfaithful.
I know it's an Old Testament book, but I was looking for specifically Christian perspectives that I am familiar with.
But do we know that he was no longer fearful by the end of this story? The narrator suggests that this specific trial was the end of his troubles, but fear is a natural part of the human condition and knowing that anything could happen at anytime for any reason is a scary thought.
There is a difference between experiencing fearful thoughts and dwelling in those thoughts.
He was considered righteous but he was still vulnerable to the devil because he lived his life in fear. Job said the thing he feared most had happened. When you live in fear , you give power to the enemy.
If Job was "afraid" of losing his loved ones does that necessarily mean it kept him up nights or influenced the decisions he made in life? God commended him for his life choices, after all. Even if for the sake of argument, we stipulate that fear = sin or at least cancel's any sense of obligation god might have around protecting you ... it just seems like you're reaching here.
I mean I didn't ponder my previous / late wife's potential demise before the fact particularly but I might have said in retrospect that "my worst fear came to pass". After all she was my wife. If you have a significant other, would that not be pretty much the worst thing that could happen to you, to lose them? Many fears are not named or entertained but in retrospect you can't imagine anything worse. I think that's all that Job meant and you can't really make more of it than that.
Of course, "beware the man with nothing to lose" because in the end Job had nowhere to go but up, I suppose.
If Job was "afraid" of losing his loved ones does that necessarily mean it kept him up nights or influenced the decisions he made in life? God commended him for his life choices, after all. Even if for the sake of argument, we stipulate that fear = sin or at least cancel's any sense of obligation god might have around protecting you ... it just seems like you're reaching here.
I mean I didn't ponder my previous / late wife's potential demise before the fact particularly but I might have said in retrospect that "my worst fear came to pass". After all she was my wife. If you have a significant other, would that not be pretty much the worst thing that could happen to you, to lose them? Many fears are not named or entertained but in retrospect you can't imagine anything worse. I think that's all that Job meant and you can't really make more of it than that.
Of course, "beware the man with nothing to lose" because in the end Job had nowhere to go but up, I suppose.
Rev 21:8
But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
I'm saying Job was under the devil's power already because when you live under a blanket of fear, you give a foothold to the enemy. I'll look for the article that explained this better than I am.
We know Job made sacrifices for his children, because he feared they may sin or curse God in their hearts. So this fear drove him to offer up burnt offerings continually. However ultimately, we know Job didn't suffer because he sinned or did something deserving of it. Throughout the book, Job's friends tried to make him confess to something, and in the end, God became angry with Job's friends because they didn't represent Him correctly.
Yet even though Job never got an answer for his sufferings, us reading the book know about what went on behind the curtain. What I wonder is could the devil make an argument to come at us the same way he came for Job? I doubt it, because now we have an advocate in Heaven. Jesus the Righteous. Even if we should slip up and sin, the devil still has no right to us, because Jesus already paid the penalty for our sins.
Just like Job tried to offer sacrifices continually for his children to keep them covered, Jesus offered Himself once and for all. Jesus is the greater Job if you will.
I also want to point out that Yahweh restoring Job wasn't necessarily a reward for being patient in his suffering. In Job 42: 10 it reads...............
And Yahweh restored the fortunes of Job, when he had prayed for his friends. And the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before............
So it was more of a result of Job interceding for His friends, that God restored him and gave him twice as much as he had before. Officially, I would agree we don't get an explanation for Job's suffering, even with the peak behind the curtain. Why did God acquiesce to the satan's request? We don't know, and what the book of Job shows us is, God Himself doesn't owe us an answer in that regard. All we need to know is that He controls everything and understands everything. We are to trust Him and cleave to Him. So when things are good, we hold onto Him with all our being. When things are devastating for us, we hold onto Him with all our being. Have y'all ever held onto something so tight, that your knuckles turned white? So wherever God goes, you are right there attached to Him. They say attached to His hip!
I think people misunderstand what the bible means when it says a person is living in the fear of God. It doesn't mean they fear God as in the basic meaning of the word it means they are living a faithful life its simple how they described it back then. You can say that today about any devout religious person that they are living in the fear of God or if they died that they lived in the fear of God.
Then you have completely missed the point. Jesus said God IS agape love and HE revealed and demonstrated what that meant on the Cross under excruciating life-and-death circumstances. He had no fear, just agape love, even for His torturers and murderers. Love casts out all fear. Unfortunately fear casts out love and our fearful primitive ancestors misinterpreted Jesus's act of love.
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