Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The concept of belief in God as accepting a specific set of "precepts and doctrines of men" that please God and avoid some implausible Eternal Hell is incredibly myopic and misguided, IMO. First of all, it is incredibly self-centered and focused on "What happens to me?" This is exacerbated by the emphasis on rewards and punishments purportedly dispensed by God.
Our savage primitive ancestors needed to be "tamed and civilized." Using anticipation of reward and fear of a wrathful and punishing God worked, but it instilled such a long-lasting fear of God we have failed to outgrow it. It also instilled a deep sense of unworthiness in us ("filthy rags") that colored our relationship with God negatively. The resultant interpreted beliefs about God and His attitude toward us were indelibly corrupted.
The inevitability of this self-centered corruption from the fear of God is why Jesus was always intended to be needed from the foundation of the world. That is why the Birth of Jesus was the "Good tidings of great joy to all people." It is why Abraham was pleased to see His coming (notice the implication that Abraham is not "dead.") No one is. What we call "death" is the Birth of Spirit Jesus tried unsuccessfully to explain to Nicodemus. What we "sow" is not quickened until we "die." (1st Corinthians 15: 35-36)
Before Jesus's "death" as a human Spirit, there was no place in Heaven for Abraham and those who preceded Jesus. They were in a kind of limbo (prison?). Jesus's "born again" human Spirit is identical to God's Holy Spirit and He created a place for all "born again" human Spirits as He promised. That is what saved us, NOT His crucifixion. The Cross was His "dying" message that God loves and forgives us no matter what we do in our ignorance and we need not fear "death." That is why He wanted us to remember Him on the Cross. We managed to screw that up and missed the point completely.
The descendants of the blessing of Isaac with Abraham was that these people could be cleansed with circumcision and when they had compassion with God they would be saved on the promise of the messiah to come by God ......... So when these people that God knew passed from this world, God collected their soul and spirit and brought them to a separated place called Abrahams bosom, where they stayed there until the Messiah came ..... After the Cross of Christ this Abraham bosom people went on to heaven and this early place Abraham bosom was closed down ....... See, Jesus said at the time when He preached in Judea that there were no one in Heaven, as the people collected were in Abraham bosom ...... Jesus preached on hell as a place for the devil and his hoard and that people souls would die in hell ... So it is not a place that believers are concerned about, but a place preachers tell people about and lazy lost people ignore or say they are going there
This doesn't mean everyone is saved. It does mean all "accounts" all clear and open to receive Christ into one's life.
He was resurrected and became the firstborn of the dead to be raised to new life.
When we accept Him by faith, we are joined to Him and His new life, and become part of the family of God.
All of this is planned and brought forth by the love of God.
That's it? All accounts are clear and open to receive? That's the plan? Your correct about God not forcing Himself on anyone. So let me ask, if everyone is not saved and they reject God while on Earth, what is their fate? Mystic is saying the same thing in my opinion what James the apostle said...Are there still some among you who say believing in one God is enough? Believing without doing is useless, even demons believe, so strongly they tremble in terror.
The concept of belief in God as accepting a specific set of "precepts and doctrines of men" that please God and avoid some implausible Eternal Hell is incredibly myopic and misguided, IMO. First of all, it is incredibly self-centered and focused on "What happens to me?" This is exacerbated by the emphasis on rewards and punishments purportedly dispensed by God.
Our savage primitive ancestors needed to be "tamed and civilized." Using anticipation of reward and fear of a wrathful and punishing God worked, but it instilled such a long-lasting fear of God we have failed to outgrow it. It also instilled a deep sense of unworthiness in us ("filthy rags") that colored our relationship with God negatively. The resultant interpreted beliefs about God and His attitude toward us were indelibly corrupted.
The inevitability of this self-centered corruption from the fear of God is why Jesus was always intended to be needed from the foundation of the world. That is why the Birth of Jesus was the "Good tidings of great joy to all people." It is why Abraham was pleased to see His coming (notice the implication that Abraham is not "dead.") No one is. What we call "death" is the Birth of Spirit Jesus tried unsuccessfully to explain to Nicodemus. What we "sow" is not quickened until we "die." (1st Corinthians 15: 35-36)
Before Jesus's "death" as a human Spirit, there was no place in Heaven for Abraham and those who preceded Jesus. They were in a kind of limbo (prison?). Jesus's "born again" human Spirit is identical to God's Holy Spirit and He created a place for all "born again" human Spirits as He promised. That is what saved us, NOT His crucifixion. The Cross was His "dying" message that God loves and forgives us no matter what we do in our ignorance and we need not fear "death." That is why He wanted us to remember Him on the Cross. We managed to screw that up and missed the point completely.
...but it instilled such a long-lasting fear of God we have failed to outgrow it. It also instilled a deep sense of unworthiness in us ("filthy rags") that colored our relationship with God negatively.
Exactly. Think of all the christians over the past 2,000 years, many of which catholic, who use penance or self punishment. They crawl on their knees bloody, going for miles, whip themselves, fast, go without talking, etc etc ....all because everyone wants to escape this Eternal Hell. No wonder, like you said, this religion is totally myopic.
This doesn't mean everyone is saved. It does mean all "accounts" all clear and open to receive Christ into one's life.
He was resurrected and became the firstborn of the dead to be raised to new life.
When we accept Him by faith, we are joined to Him and His new life, and become part of the family of God.
All of this is planned and brought forth by the love of God.
I agree with your last statement
In my opinion the OP is not off base - just looking at it from outside of the systems and organisations of Christianity
The planning and bringing that plan to fruition is by the love of God and through Christ and then through the church, through Christianity over the next 2 Days
Christianity itself has a dual nature being displayed where down here there is those that have fallen from its own spiritual blessings in high places by its own building itself up to force compliance through its systems and organisations and that has the reverse effect of needing to be brought down and humbled
This is what outsiders can see has happened to and within Christianity, and what Paul is telling the church through Galatians to be wary of - Galatians 5:
What we are seeing currently on/in earth is the consequences of the differences in the external religious beliefs and observances being enforced and the inner life of people being ignored and it spills out both individually and societally
And this was foreseen and written about in Matthew 24
Also this
Mat 23:10**Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11**But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12**And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
That's it? All accounts are clear and open to receive? That's the plan? Your correct about God not forcing Himself on anyone. So let me ask, if everyone is not saved and they reject God while on Earth, what is their fate? Mystic is saying the same thing in my opinion what James the apostle said...Are there still some among you who say believing in one God is enough? Believing without doing is useless, even demons believe, so strongly they tremble in terror.
Their fate is an eternal existence in their sinful state. They will be part of the second death, which IMO is eternity apart from the source of life, which is God.
Whether it's hell, or a lake of fire, or something unmentioned - it won't be good for them.
Just a reminder that Jesus mentioned hell more than anyone else in the Bible. So there is something unpleasant on the other side for unbelievers.
Their fate is an eternal existence in their sinful state. They will be part of the second death, which IMO is eternity apart from the source of life, which is God.
Whether it's hell, or a lake of fire, or something unmentioned - it won't be good for them.
Just a reminder that Jesus mentioned hell more than anyone else in the Bible. So there is something unpleasant on the other side for unbelievers.
I see things written in Scripture and related at religious levels
The Holy Scriptures are not written to individuals about individuals, they are written to the religious through individuals who have been brought up in their systems and witness/observe/report how they have been treated by the religious ‘rich’
We are now at the end of Christianity’s dominion over their ‘people’
The dead in Christ are those who are contained within the systems and organisations which were dedicated in ‘the beginning’ 1 AD and now we see the effect of their own management styles that have impacted society
Hades was a Greek concept looking forward to the religious realm of ‘the dead’
The other-side (the flip side) religiously from 1 AD is now 2000 years later (2 Days) with the Roman Catholic Church in between the 2 sides having reigned for their 1000 years/1 Day
Last edited by Meerkat2; 04-14-2024 at 04:30 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
