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My thinking process sometimes gets me into hot water and at times it's probably better to remain quiet rather than to appear to be 'rocking the boat' with logic. However, since this thread may make allowances for one's 'rocking the boat with logic', I will ask this question with the New Testament in mind: WHO was the 'stenographer' who constantly followed Jesus around taking precise notes of every word that Jesus uttered?
For I have come to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
That is inside a person willing to die as a king to get betrothed to a new Adam as a submissive virgin.. The fight begins and there are 5 on a house, son shall hate the father and father should hate the sin. Your tribulation negins.
My thinking process sometimes gets me into hot water and at times it's probably better to remain quiet rather than to appear to be 'rocking the boat' with logic. However, since this thread may make allowances for one's 'rocking the boat with logic', I will ask this question with the New Testament in mind: WHO was the 'stenographer' who constantly followed Jesus around taking precise notes of every word that Jesus uttered?
Is this a taboo question to ask?
No, this is not a taboo question
This makes a lot of sense
There must be a chain of narrators
From the one who heard the words of Jesus to the one who put it in his book
For example
Mr. B heard from Jesus
Mr. C heard from B
Mr. D heard from C
Mr. D put it in the book
Pretty high bar to set, yet billions of people are perfectly willing to lend credence to things that have been through multiple hundreds, if not thousands of layers of interpretation and re-interpretation. Could it possibly be - wait for it - that the more apt formulation of the name of this thread should instead read "It's possible that not a single word in the Bible is true"?
No, this is not a taboo question
This makes a lot of sense
There must be a chain of narrators
From the one who heard the words of Jesus to the one who put it in his book
For example
Mr. B heard from Jesus
Mr. C heard from B
Mr. D heard from C
Mr. D put it in the book
and all the narrators must be trustful
Actually, I posed my question to the Internet. Here is what I got:
John 14:26:-"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you (English Standard Version)."
That's interesting ...as though Jesus (via John) anticipated that this question pertaining to 'who'? would later be asked.
Pretty high bar to set, yet billions of people are perfectly willing to lend credence to things that have been through multiple hundreds, if not thousands of layers of interpretation and re-interpretation. Could it possibly be - wait for it - that the more apt formulation of the name of this thread should instead read "It's possible that not a single word in the Bible is true"?
I am always amused that the response to an extreme position by detractors seems to invariably default to the extreme opposite! Where is the "middle button" in human speculation? It is not only possible but extraordinarily likely given our human flaws that NOT everything in the Bible is true! That would be why Christians are told (but they ignore it) that Jesus is the Word of God (Logos), not the scriptures. He is the Truth, the Way, and the Life.
Actually, I posed my question to the Internet. Here is what I got:
John 14:26:-"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you (English Standard Version)."
That's interesting ...as though Jesus (via John) anticipated that this question pertaining to 'who'? would later be asked.
this is very imortant verse that need to be surely interpreted
was the Holy Spirit there at the time of Jesus and before Jesus?
Who is the one that interpreted the word Helper by the Holy Spirit ?
what is the exact word that Jesus used it in his langauge for this word meaning helpper?
Are these words Comforter, Counselor ,Advocate = Helper
and all of them can be translated to one word
the word that Jesus spoke
I am always amused that the response to an extreme position by detractors seems to invariably default to the extreme opposite!
That's normal human behavior, although I don't see my question as that extreme (but then, of course, I wouldn't). I didn't state definitively that no word in the Bible is true (I'm sure the articles and prepositions, at the bare minimum, have done no harm to anyone). I just merely suggested that, given the multi-millennia game of telephone, perhaps the texts many hold sacred may have been manipulated, on purpose or otherwise, into oblivion. I find that to be an entirely reasonable and not at all extreme possibility, but that's just me.
Quote:
Where is the "middle button" in human speculation?
It's hard to have a middle button when it comes to things that cannot be empirically proven. Any step in the direction away from the commonly held belief can be seen as extreme.
Quote:
It is not only possible but extraordinarily likely given our human flaws that NOT everything in the Bible is true!
I would go so far as to say that it's more than extraordinarily likely - it's 100% a fact that not everything in the Bible is true. All it takes is one single perversion of truth for that statement to hold and I'm pretty sure there have been waaaay more than one of those.
How far we want to take the percentage of untruths is up to the interpretation of each individual.
Quote:
That would be why Christians are told (but they ignore it) that Jesus is the Word of God (Logos), not the scriptures. He is the Truth, the Way, and the Life.
And the likelihood of his word surviving in its unadulterated form is just as close to zero as that of the scriptures.
That's normal human behavior, although I don't see my question as that extreme (but then, of course, I wouldn't). I didn't state definitively that no word in the Bible is true (I'm sure the articles and prepositions, at the bare minimum, have done no harm to anyone). I just merely suggested that, given the multi-millennia game of telephone, perhaps the texts many hold sacred may have been manipulated, on purpose or otherwise, into oblivion. I find that to be an entirely reasonable and not at all extreme possibility, but that's just me.It's hard to have a middle button when it comes to things that cannot be empirically proven. Any step in the direction away from the commonly held belief can be seen as extreme.I would go so far as to say that it's more than extraordinarily likely - it's 100% a fact that not everything in the Bible is true. All it takes is one single perversion of truth for that statement to hold and I'm pretty sure there have been waaaay more than one of those.
How far we want to take the percentage of untruths is up to the interpretation of each individual. And the likelihood of his word surviving in its unadulterated form is just as close to zero as that of the scriptures.
Fortunately, we do not need to rely on His words as reported by our ancestors. We are more likely to get a truer picture of the "mind of Christ" by what He is reported to have DONE and His attitudes towards us. Those things are less likely to be subject to telephone distortion, although embellishments are likely. However, the basic character of the actions and attitudes should be reliably inferred from them. In short, it is the persona of Jesus we discern, per se, that tells us what is or is not likely to be compatible with what is claimed to have been said by Him. For example, His complete lack of any wrath or vengeance despite a horrendous scourging and crucifixion tells us that neither He nor God have any wrath or vengeance toward us no matter what we do. So we can discount the wrath and vengeance reports as a very human and primitive misunderstanding.
no one has excuse except those who did not hear about the final prophet
and it is not right to give a religious action or decition from our own thoughts as if we are talking in behalf of God
the final Holy Book is true 100% and it is univirsal for all the worlds. and it is the one that must be follwed. and Jesus himself preached about that.
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