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Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
I think the underlined is his point.
I'd rather hear it from Mike. I understand what faith means, but I'd like to understand how Mike sees faith as a salvation issue, basically. Meaning, Mike, are you saying that faith alone is how one is "saved"? That once you die, if you were an unbeliever during your life, that that's it..... there is no hope for that person? What exactly do you believe?
It's difficult to have a conversation with someone if you don't understand, at least, the core perspective of the other person.
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
I think the underlined is his point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow.
I'd rather hear it from Mike. I understand what faith means, but I'd like to understand how Mike sees faith as a salvation issue, basically. Meaning, Mike, are you saying that faith alone is how one is "saved"? That once you die, if you were an unbeliever during your life, that that's it..... there is no hope for that person? What exactly do you believe?
It's difficult to have a conversation with someone if you don't understand, at least, the core perspective of the other person.
DRob is correct. I have "faith" that when I sit in the chair, it will not collapse under me. When I actually sit in the chair and is does not collapse, I no longer have faith, but assurance.
I have "faith" that Christ died for me, rose from the dead, and is seated at the right hand of God. When I die and see Christ face to face, my faith gives way to assurance. That's why Paul says that of faith, hope, and love, love is the greatest. Faith and hope give way, while love remains for eternity.
And *no*, I do not believe in salvation by faith alone. However, I was attempting to engage HSong on his terms, since he does believe in faith alone.
DRob is correct. I have "faith" that when I sit in the chair, it will not collapse under me. When I actually sit in the chair and is does not collapse, I no longer have faith, but assurance.
I have "faith" that Christ died for me, rose from the dead, and is seated at the right hand of God. When I die and see Christ face to face, my faith gives way to assurance. That's why Paul says that of faith, hope, and love, love is the greatest. Faith and hope give way, while love remains for eternity.
And *no*, I do not believe in salvation by faith alone. However, I was attempting to engage HSong on his terms, since he does believe in faith alone.
Ok, great. What you wrote above, you put it quite well, and I agree 100% and view it the same way.
Preach Jesus... don't preach the outcome. Leave the outcome to Jesus to do as He wills.
Universalism is worshiping an outcome - not the person of Christ. Same goes for those who preach a predominate hellfire type of message.
I don’t think either is worshipping the outcomes
It has more to do with not understanding the scope of what Jesus did at that particular time - and both sides not understanding the other’s perspectives
We all see it from very limited perspectives
I totally agree about preaching Jesus, but that is what HSong is doing - preaching what he sees from his perspective
I don’t think either is worshipping the outcomes
It has more to do with not understanding the scope of what Jesus did at that particular time - and both sides not understanding the other’s perspectives
We all see it from very limited perspectives
I totally agree about preaching Jesus, but that is what HSong is doing - preaching what he sees from his perspective
But either everyone goes to heaven or they don't. The ramifications are monumental and worthy of inquiry and debate.
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