If The Church is Israel…? (sinners, worship, blood, Matthew)

[Brightfame52]

Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4

Since Pentecost the 'church' (Christian congregation) is 'spiritual Israel' and Not fleshly national Israel.
'Spiritual Israel' is Not located on any map because it has No physical boundaries, Nor borders.
The Christian congregation as a whole is the 'holy nation' mentioned at 1st Peter 2:9,5
No longer a Jew by fleshly descent - Romans 2:28-29
Jerusalem 'above' (Not on Earth) is now the seat of government for Christians - Galatians 4:26

Spiritual Israel began in genesis with whoever the first people of faith were. We know by plain writing that Abel was a part of Spiritual Israel since he had faith Heb 11:4

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

I believe also both Adam and Eve were given Faith, so they also would be included in Spiritual Israel

[Brightfame52]

Another scripture that speaks of the Church that applies to 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Its Eph 1:14 when speaking of the Church comprised of both jew and gentile believers in Ephesus

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Now what is the purchased possession ? Why its the Church, bought with a price, as here Acts 20:28

28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Now the words purchased possession in Eph 1:14 is the same word for " a peculiar people " in 1 Pet 2:9, now how so that ? Because they're the same exact people! 7

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

The church isn't Israel.

Nope. It isn't. Only some goofy milleniarism would make it so.



And if the church were truly Israel, when it isn't a very moral body. All you have to do is look at the Israeli government's policy of evicting Palestinians off ancestral lands. Hey, I support Israel's right to exist, but that's not the same thing as slavishly approving everything the Israeli government does.



What's more, even Jews worldwide are not anywhere close to unanimity on Israel as the fulfillment of some historical mission.

[Vf6cruiser]

Originally Posted by 1689dave

If The Church is Israel…?

Who then is Israel now in the Middle East? The simple answer is; those few who escaped Jerusalem’s destruction in 70AD and their converts. The reason these are not biblical Israel is that when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he ended the only means of making one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. “And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

So how then is the Church Israel? When God removed the unbelievers from Israel, only believers remained. "They are not all Israel, which are, of Israel . . . They which are the children of the flesh, these, are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom. 9:6, 8)

To the children of promise, God in fulfilling his promise to Abraham added believing gentiles from around the world. Paul recognizes this when he says “That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:” Ephesians 2:12 (KJV 1900) Meaning the believing gentiles are now part of the commonwealth of Israel.

Other passages confirm the same. “For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.” Acts 3:22–23 (KJV 1900)

Paul says “Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. He says; Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.” Galatians 6:15–16 (NIV) the obedience of believers confirms their residency in the Israel of God.

Also, research shows that the similarities between ancient Israel and the Church of the New Covenant are identical.

Called in the OT;

1. Saints (Num. 16:3: Deut. 33:3)
2. Elect (Deut. 7:6, 7; 14:2)
3. Beloved (Deut. 7:7; 4:37)
4. Called (Isa. 41:9; 43:1)
5. Church (Ps. 89:5; Mic. 2:5 (LXX) Act. 7:38; Heb. 2:12)
6. Flock (Ezek. 34; Ps. 77:20)
7. Holy Nation (Exod. 19:5, 6)
8. Kingdom of Priests (Exod.19:5, 6)
9. Peculiar Treasure (Exod. 19:5, 6)
10. God's People (Hos. 1:9, 10)
11. Holy People (Deut. 7:6)
12. People of Inheritance (Deut.4:20)
13. God's Tabernacle in Israel (Lev.26:11)
14. God walks among them (Lev. 26:12)
15. Twelve Patriarchs
16. Christ married to them (Isa.54:5; Jer.3:14; Hos.2:19; Jer.6:2; 31:32)

Called the same in the NT;

1. Saints (Eph. 1:1; Rom. 1:7)
2. Elect (Col. 3:12; Titus 1:1)
3. Beloved (Col.3:12; 1 Thess 1:4)
4. Called (Rom. 1:6, 7; 1Cor.1:2)
5. Church (Eph. 1:1; Acts 20:28)
6. Flock (Luke 12:32; 1 Pet. 5:2)
7. Holy Nation (1 Pet. 2:9)
8. Kingdom of Priests (1 Pet. 2:9)
9. Peculiar Treasure (1 Pet. 2:9)
10. God's People (1 Pet. 2:10)
11. Holy People (1 Pet. 1:15, 16)
12. People of Inheritance (Eph. 1:18)
13. God's Tabernacle in Church (John 1:14)
14. God walks among them (2 Cor.6:16-18)
15. Twelve Apostles
16. Christ married to them (Eph.5:22, 23; 2Cor.11:2)
Israel and the Church: See the Difference? | 1689 Federalism

"They are not all Israel, which are, of Israel . . . They which are the children of the flesh, these, are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom. 9:6, 8)

Paul calls Jesus Israel when he when he calls him Abraham’s seed. “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” Galatians 3:16 (KJV 1900)

Matthew also calls Jesus Israel when he quotes Hosea saying “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1) compare to; “And (Jesus) was there (in Egypt) until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

We who believe are members of Israel being members of Jesus’ body. “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Ephesians 5:30 (KJV 1900)

Try and get in a synagogue and see how "Israel" you are..................the church is NOT now nor never has been Israel........

[Jesus'Truth]

The first book in the Bible tells us who and what Israel is. See Genesis 32:28.

Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.”

Did you see that? The one who struggles with God and with men and overcomes that is who Israel is.

And Jesus in the last book of the Bible confirms this message. See these scriptures in Revelation. Read what Jesus says about overcoming.

Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.

Revelation 2:26 To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations–

Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 3:21 To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.



And there is only one way a person struggles with God and men and overcomes in this world, and that is through Jesus Christ our Savior.

1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.



Therefore, who and what is Israel—Israel is people who overcome by faith in Jesus Christ.

Just as Jacob is called Israel by overcoming, we too are Israel by overcoming by faith in Jesus.



Jesus is the Israel of God.

And all who are put in Jesus are the body of Israel.

Exodus 4:22 Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,

Galatians 6:16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule–to the Israel of God.


Look at that, Paul said that to Gentiles, and that is how Gentiles become descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, otherwise known as Israel.

[Brightfame52]

Mystery Israel !

Rom 11:24-26

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This Mystery Israel is something men dont know by nature, it must be made known by God. When God declared Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

What was the mystery , it was in the manner of how all Israel shall be saved, for it was the purpose of God to save His Israel by the out calling of His Elect from among both the Jews and Gentiles. . His people Israel are not all Jews and not all Gentiles, but called out from among both Rom 9:24-26

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Paul was explaining how that God was still saving all Israel by the calling of the Gentiles. National Israels Covenant Identity with God is no longer, so jews will be saved during the calling of the gentiles, the nations, since there are no more special nations set apart for God, national israel isnt no more above russia, japan, nigeria, she is now part of the ordinary nations of the world, just as gentile nations. Mystery Israel that God promised to save is none other than the Church, the Body of Christ, which is the Spiritual seed of Abraham Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. The promise that Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting Salvation !

[Brightfame52]

More on Mystery Israel:

In Romans 11 Paul write of God’s eternal purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11. He states that it has always been God’s eternal purpose to save his elect Israel by calling each of his elect from among Jew and Gentile by Christ our Deliverer. Rom 11: 25-27

is a sort of parenthesis in the midst of his gentle reroof concerning God’s eternal purpose for his elect Israel. He declared that the mystery of God, God’s eternal purpose is to save all his elect from among the Jew and the Gentiles, as foretold by Jesus words Jn 10:16. That Israel shall be saved Isa 45:17 is a Gospel Promise, that included Gentiles Eph 3:6

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

And when God has fulfilled his purpose, by calling all his elect of jews and gentiles from the Gentile nations. “And so” and after this manner—"all God’s elect Israel shall be saved.” Rom 11:26

Elect Gentiles are fellowheirs with the Old Test heirs as Per Heb 11:8-10

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Gentiles are Heirs with the Fathers in the Eternal Kingdom of Inheritance Matt 8:8-12

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[Brightfame52]

A Person can be a national jew by blood, a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet spiritually have hagar as their mother, and a believing gentile that belongs to the Body of Christ spiritually has Sarah as their Mother, for Sarah is the Mother of the Church, the Body of Christ Gal 4:22-26

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman[Sarah].

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman[Sarah] was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother[Sarah] of us all.

[Matthew 4:4]

Originally Posted by Brightfame52

Spiritual Israel began in genesis with whoever the first people of faith were. We know by plain writing that Abel was a part of Spiritual Israel since he had faith Heb 11:4
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
I believe also both Adam and Eve were given Faith, so they also would be included in Spiritual Israel

Sure, Adam and Eve had 'faith' (confidence in God) until they broke God's 'do not eat' law. Genesis 2:17

Abel was Not part of the Christian congregation which is 'spiritual Israel' - please see 1st Peter 2:9,5.
Abel was Not a holy nation but a holy person, nor did Abel declare abroad about God as Jesus said at Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:8

By Abel being holy we know he will have a righteous resurrection as mentioned at Acts 24:15.
Abel like the others of Hebrews chapter 11 still waiting - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39

[kjw47]

Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser

Try and get in a synagogue and see how "Israel" you are..................the church is NOT now nor never has been Israel........

You are right, but the religion that Jesus and Paul began served the Abrahamic God= a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah)-- there is no doubt about that reality. The same God Israel served, he did not change. The religion that came out of Rome changed him to mislead by satans will.