Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Actually Jesus taught on the trinity and gave a grave warning for people that the number for God is not 666 , which is man's number, as God number may be 333 or three in the trinity at Revelations 13:17-18......................... Then Jesus taught on the Holy Spirit throughout His ministry alone with end times, and told that when you listened to Him, you listen to God, and Jesus talked of Father God and Him are the only ones who could forgive sin against heaven .... See the dogma of the trinity is from Heaven and not the ideas of man.
No, I do not believe that. Jesus saves, not one's own understanding of a doctrine of the Bible. It is not a very clear doctrine. I personally believe it is a correct interpretation that is derived from the full counsel of God's word. Yet, Jesus says he will turn away no one who comes to him (sincerely). Why would you come to him however would be important or else you won't--Jesus saves us from our sins in order for us to be reconciled to God and have eternal fellowship with him.
All other doctrines help us to have a closer walk with the Lord in this life and to know his glory and beauty and to cherish the presence of him in our life. I find the understanding of these doctrines and to belong to the visible church an incredible, merciful gift of the Lord to me, yet I believe it is wrong to look at others as condemned for not believing the same way we ourselves may or for not belonging to a visible church.
It is hard to understand... especially for the Abrahamic faiths. Why? because those of us who believe in the triune nature of God, fail to explain it in relevant terms. So... IMO it's why unbelievers or skeptical believers can not come to terms with this or comprehend it. Trying to expalin an infinite God with a finite understanding takes wisdom... not from mans understanding, but inspired words from the Creator.
Our failure often lies in our lack of understanding of the infinite depth of the subject. There is a difference between 'believing something and faithfully believing something'. We as Christians often do more damage with our tongues, as opposed to our hands and feet.
In modern times, we've made it a doctrine. With Jesus, it was a simple reality. For example:
John 14:9 - "Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"
Matt 28:18-20 - "18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Of course, there are many other instances where the triune nature of God is referenced. For example:
John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. -- 14: And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth
1 John 5:10 - "20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."
1 John 4:1-3 - "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world."
Must we believe in the doctrine of the Trinity to be saved? - From a debate standpoint, it probably doesn't matter. But, we must understand and acknowledge the deity of Christ and the ever-present person of the Holy Spirit - as God with us. If we know the true Christ, we will know Him as God and Lord ... and the indwelling Holy Spirit as God within believers.
In modern times, we've made it a doctrine. With Jesus, it was a simple reality. For example:
John 14:9 - "Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"
Matt 28:18-20 - "18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Of course, there are many other instances where the triune nature of God is referenced. For example:
John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. -- 14: And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth
1 John 5:10 - "20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."
1 John 4:1-3 - "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world."
Must we believe in the doctrine of the Trinity to be saved? - From a debate standpoint, it probably doesn't matter. But, we must understand and acknowledge the deity of Christ and the ever-present person of the Holy Spirit - as God with us. If we know the true Christ, we will know Him as God and Lord ... and the indwelling Holy Spirit as God within believers.
No, look at all sentences of Jesus speaking of God: always as "his father", and always in third person. He never ever says "us" or "we". Same for the Holy Spirit. Plus, there's all those scriptures about Jesus seated at the right hand of God. Clearly someone separate.
The trinity is a fabrication of the church. Though recognizing him as a holy and perfect, they perversely fear to separate him from God, like the angels. But if you only read scripture, and tune out the church, that's exactly what you will find. There's a hierarchy there: Jesus, holy spirit, angels. All holy, but all separate beings working together.
Nowhere in scripture does Jesus say believe in "us", or believe in the trinity. It's only believe in "me" / Jesus.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 11-07-2020 at 11:13 AM..
No, look at all sentences of Jesus speaking of God: always as "his father" or "the father", and always in third person. He never ever says "us" or "we". Plus, there's all those scriptures about Jesus seated at the right hand of God. Clearly someone separate.
The trinity is a fabrication of the church. Though recognizing him as a holy and perfect, they perversely fear to separate him from God, like the angels. But if you only read scripture, and tune out the church, that's exactly what you will find. There's a hierarchy there: Jesus, holy spirit, angels. All holy, but all separate beings working together.
Nowhere in scripture does Jesus say believe in "us", or believe in the trinity. It's only believe in "me" / Jesus.
I agree, but if you believe in Jesus, you also believe in God because Jesus came from God, and it’s through the Holy Spirit, and that Holy Spirit comes from Father and Son, we don’t need to believe in the trinity doctrine to be “saved“ but the concept/explanation of the trinity evolved to explain the unity (family) of the God-head of the father, Son, Holy Spirit, - it is about the same authority, but different manifestations
Those 3 are integrally/essentially related to each other
Jesus did not write anything, and the NT was inspired by the same Spirit as that inspired the Hebrew Scriptures and has separate parts, that work together
It is addressed to the diverse religious parts - Roman, Greek, Hebrew calling them to be united, the same as the Father, son, Holy Spirit are United
It doesn’t look back it looks forward, and first there is a scattering and dividing (of the flesh).... then there is a gathering and assembling (of the spirit)
Mat 1:20**And on his thinking of these things, behold, a messenger of the LORD appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, you may not fear to receive your wife Mary, for that which was begotten in her [is] of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 1:21**and she will bring forth a Son, and you will call His Name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
Mat 1:22**And all this has come to pass, that it may be fulfilled that was spoken by the LORD through the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23**“Behold, the virgin will conceive, and she will bring forth a Son, and they will call His Name Emmanuel,” which is, being interpreted, “God with us.”
Php 2:1**If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Php 2:2**Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Php 2:3**Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Php 2:4**Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Php 2:5**Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6**Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7**But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8**And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9**Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10**That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11**And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Name is about the authority, and character
G3686***(Strong)
ὄνομα
onoma
on'-om-ah
From a presumed derivative of the base of G1097 (compare G3685); a “name” (literally or figuratively), (authority, character): - called, (+ sur-) name (-d).
Indeed, the Church fabricated the doctrine of the Trinity.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
