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I would say bawac has confused hatred for the gays with hatred for the sin of the gays.
What IS IT, precisely, Charlie, that makes homosexuality 'a sin'? I got no satisfactory answer to that question on the other two threads ...maybe it will be a case of three times lucky.
By the way, Charlie, do you know why 'man lying with man' is an abomination in the Leviticus texts? If you do, tell me but PLEASE be specific in your description. If you don't know then just say that you don't know.
Here's a good quality, civil, substantive debate/discussion about this very topic!
Side A & B Gay Christians debate sexuality - Brandan Robertson & David Bennett
Brandan Roberston is a progressive pastor of an LGBT affirming church who believes there is no barrier to Christians being in loving same-sex relationships.
David Bennett was an anti-Christian gay activist who experienced a dramatic conversion and now believes that his commitment to Christ requires a path of celibacy.
I only watched the first 12 minutes since I really didn't see the video going in a direction that I haven't experienced many times previously. So, my short response to the basic gist of the video would be ...to each his own. They have chosen to follow their hearts and so I say 'all the best' to both of them.
Those who deny what the scriptures teach may think that they have a relationship with the Lord that is contrary to scripture; but they will find in the end that they will be cast into the lake of fire for their abominations that they have practiced.
'Abominations', eh? Well, let's see ...a rather harsh penalty for their having eaten shrimp or/and having committed other rather frivolous biblical 'abominations', don't you think?
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
IThe only way they are not going to be punished is if they place their trust in Christ to be their redeemer...not only from the penalty of their sins...but from their power and practice.
I've known a few Christians who have placed their trust in Christ to be their redeemer but they still have a hankering for crab and lobster when they eat out. I don't think it ever occurred to them that one cancels out the other.
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
IIn order to be redeemed you must agree with God about your sin (1 John 1:9) and that means not denying that your sin is sin.
I doubt that these seafood lovers have ever considered that doing so constitutes a sin. There needs to be more preaching of this sinful behavior in church.
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
IAnd of course, as you have said, trobesmom, those who want to believe that their homosexuality is alright have to deny the teachings of holy scripture...
When those Christians with shellfish on their breath - thereby denying the teachings of holy scripture - preach to the gay community then it's little wonder that the gay community pay little heed to them. Where do we draw the line with these 'abominations'?
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
ISo, the question that I would have is, Can they honestly identify themselves as Christians?
Those I know and have known from the church who partake in the seafood buffet when dining out have never, to my knowledge, believed that their Christianity is in question. They just seem to enjoy the seafood buffet and be 'Christian'.
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
IA Christian is anyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord"....
But I would say that the scripture is clear that not everyone who is identified as a Christian is going to necessarily enter in to the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21).
Hmmm . . .those within my Christian circle of friends of a few years ago committed quite a number of Bible 'abominations' on a daily basis and we were not even aware that we were doing so. Among the other biblical 'abominations' we committed regularly was the partaking of foods of animals that probably had a split-hoof and most certainly water creatures without fins or scales that were often on the menu of many of the restaurants we visited. We were never aware that these things were detestable to God. This should have been pointed out to us by the church leaders of the day with the same gusto used in their anti-gay campaign. As they say, ignorance is no excuse for disobedience to the law or to God. I just hope that God has it in his heart to forgive my friends and I for our dietary transgressions and will therefore allow us into His kingdom.
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Originally Posted by justbyfaith
ISo, another question is, can you identify yourself as someone who is going to enter in to the kingdom, if you are a denier of the teachings of holy scripture?
Based on the number of biblical 'abominations' that the average Christian commits on a daily basis I really don't think that any of us are going to make it into the kingdom. You see, Christianity has made the admittance fee too unreasonable and the criteria for entry too complicated. It was always my understanding that if we believed in Jesus then we could forego the ancient 'abominations' of the OT and still enjoy the seafood buffet without feeling guilty. Evidently I was wrong.
I can back my opinion with scripture that you deny.
I would say your opinion is baseless, well maybe based on foolishness.
You can't use scripture to prove a truth. It too is open for interpretation and a matter of opinion. Scripture is how you live your life. Not everyone believes like you. I don't take offense with you telling me my opinion is my opinion. I'm well aware of that. At least I can admit it.
And if I am right, things are not going to go well for you once you enter in to the next life.
That is why you need to consider that I may indeed be right and take the necessary precautions.
If you read your Bible, the Lord will instill faith in you (Romans 10:17) by which you can be saved (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:1-2).
You certainly have a choice as to whether or not you will cultivate faith in your life; and you will be held accountable for that decision.
And you may say again, That is your opinion.
To which I will say, consider Paschal's Wager.
God said he would rather we be hot or cold instead of lukewarm. Those are the ones he will spew from his mouth. If that is the case, I'm good.
The greatest commandment is to love God (in my case nature, the Universe, Mother Earth) and to love our neighbor as ourselves. I'm not always successful, but I try. My conscience is clear.
Jesus also seemed to have a soft spot for people were perceived to be sinners by the religious folk. It's the religious and judgmental that he had a problem with.
Last edited by trobesmom; 05-04-2021 at 07:07 AM..
At the risk of causing you another sleepless night....
If anyone is going to take your toddler-level representation of Christianity semi-seriously, learn to spell it right.
Your and trobesmom's hostility towards Bible believing Christians is puzzling.
Other than enjoying diminishing them as people via juvenile name calling what do you really believe you have to offer in this thread?
Enlightenment? Self-gratification at denigrating other's beliefs? Amusement at poking others who have differing views?
The fact is the bible does consider homosexuality, adultery, judging others (not behaviors - other people) and many other things as sinful. Take it or leave it.
Get over it, dismiss it as rubbish and find another thread to do whatever is you think you're doing.
Your and trobesmom's hostility towards Bible believing Christians is puzzling.
Other than enjoying diminishing them as people via juvenile name calling what do you really believe you have to offer in this thread?
Enlightenment? Self-gratification at denigrating other's beliefs? Amusement at poking others who have differing views?
The fact is the bible does consider homosexuality, adultery, judging others (not behaviors - other people) and many other things as sinful. Take it or leave it.
Get over it, dismiss it as rubbish and find another thread to do whatever is you think you're doing.
Poor, sad fundie.
If all you want to hear is an echo chamber, this isn't the place for you.
I have no problem with the majority of Christians who are sensible, intelligent, empathetic, and educated enough to parse the bible properly - separating the wheat from the crap.
Sadly, fundies swallow it wholesale and then regurgitate the crap in order to hurt others like the LGBT.
My mission is to hold a mirror to their bigotry, hatred and narrow mindedness - and do my best to prevent them from looking away.
Don't like it? Go hide at CARM or any of the many other Christian sites which quickly bans truth tellers like me.
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