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well to be fair:
Barkley made several jumps to join better teams and ring chase: Left Philly to go to the Suns, then after that team faded, jumped to Houston with Hakeem, Drexler and later Pippen.
Pippen left Chicago to Houston and then Portland.
Malone left Utah to ring chase with the Lakers.
Payton also joined both LA and later Miami with Wade and Shaq to get his ring.
Kareem won a ring in Milwaukee and then decided he wanted to play in a bigger city and demanded a trade to LA.
Wilt changed teams several times in his career.
That's why it kills me to hear some of these older folks blast Lebron and KD for doing what they all were doing back then. The hypocrisy is incredible.
I think that just stating that the NBA just has different era's with contracts and other factors makes comparing eras difficult at best.
Additionally, I would argue that Cleveland's owner was and is *terrible*. I for one have never faulted Lebron for leaving and he did them a solid coming back. (The only thing they could do after he left was lose and get lucky in the draft lottery)
Most of your comparison examples are awful, with the exception of Kareem, they were late in their careers if not well past their primes. I'm mean are you really trying to compare a 34 year old Pippen coming off injuries that never played the same again to a 26yo peak Lebron? I would stop and just let those comparisons go.
1984: Born after Michael Jordan. Had Lebron been born first, he'd have the Jumpman logo, the shoes, the movies and all the adulation Jordan currently receives. He also would have played against easier competition. He would not retire and would likely win 7-9 titles. He also didn't have the benefit of having Phil Jackson as a coach.
2003 - 2010: Gets drafted by a terrible organization. They failed to get him one All-Star/All-NBA caliber player the entire time he was there.
2011: The Mavs unleashed a zone defense the likes of which the League had never seen. Jordan never had to deal with a defense like this and even admitted himself that he would not have had the career he did if zone defense existed during his era.
2014: After finally getting help, Wade got old, and Lebron had to do it all by himself. The Spurs were inevitable that year and even Jordan's '96 Bulls would have lost in 5 games.
2015: Kyrie and Love get hurt.
2017-18: Lebron comes up against a superteam. No team in history could have beaten the '17-'18 Warriors.
2021: AD gets injured. This cost Lebron another ring.
2023-24: Lebron didn't get enough help. D-Lo has clearly not pulled his weight.
Lebron didn't go to college either..........
What guarantee would Lebron have with the "Air Lebron" logo? Why is his not allowed to be in movies? Why is Phil Jackson the difference? Were Lebron's coaches underqualified?
I think you are missing it: Jordan has/had the personality to go with the big smile! That's what separates him from Lebron who to me has a "I'm owed" personality. Heck I bet Shaq gets more endorsements than Lebron (again big smiling personality). Some guys have it, some guys don't, oh well.
Exactly. And Barkley and Malone were around 26 when they started team hopping which made it even worse.
Malone was 40 years old in his last year when he left Utah. Utah was okay with it, his teammates were okay with it, and everyone was hoping he would end his career with a championship. He never "team hopped" or whatever nonsense you are spewing.
Barkley was 28 when he asked the 76ers to trade him to Portland. They refused to do that, but traded him to the Suns. This was back when players did not control where they went. Free Agency, meaning true free agency where the player could go where they wanted, was in its infancy. There simply was no team hoping as it did not exist. Barkley did not go "team hopping" he had to ask for a trade, and he could not control where he went.
It works both ways for LeBron because if Covid doesn't happen in 2020, the Lakers aren't winning the championship that year, so if not for Covid LeBron is still looking for his first title as a Laker. I don't think it changes much for him in regards to his Lakers legacy, but it definitely doesn't hurt him that he has his title in LA.
Jordan has/had the personality to go with the big smile! That's what separates him from Lebron who to me has a "I'm owed" personality.
Jordan was gambling/golfing in his 30's and refusing to sign autographs/taking pics, LeBron did a lot for charity while still being in the gym every day.
I think that just stating that the NBA just has different era's with contracts and other factors makes comparing eras difficult at best.
Additionally, I would argue that Cleveland's owner was and is *terrible*. I for one have never faulted Lebron for leaving and he did them a solid coming back. (The only thing they could do after he left was lose and get lucky in the draft lottery)
Most of your comparison examples are awful, with the exception of Kareem, they were late in their careers if not well past their primes. I'm mean are you really trying to compare a 34 year old Pippen coming off injuries that never played the same again to a 26yo peak Lebron? I would stop and just let those comparisons go.
Agree with you on the Cleveland owner. Having watched guys like Mike Trout and Barry Sanders waste their careers on dead end teams makes me fully sympathetic to any athlete who decides that he/she doesnt want to go that route. That's why I was glad when Ohtani left the Angels, too bad Trout is stuck there.
You say my examples were awful. While I will admit that Karl Malone and Gary Payton were not young and at their peaks, they were still highly productive when they joined the Lakers. Both of them were averaging around 20 ppg in the season before going to join the 3 time champion that happened to have two of the most dominant players in the league on their squad. If that isnt a close comparison to KD joining the Warriors then I dont know what is.
Agree with you on the Cleveland owner. Having watched guys like Mike Trout and Barry Sanders waste their careers on dead end teams makes me fully sympathetic to any athlete who decides that he/she doesnt want to go that route. That's why I was glad when Ohtani left the Angels, too bad Trout is stuck there.
You say my examples were awful. While I will admit that Karl Malone and Gary Payton were not young and at their peaks, they were still highly productive when they joined the Lakers. Both of them were averaging around 20 ppg in the season before going to join the 3 time champion that happened to have two of the most dominant players in the league on their squad. If that isnt a close comparison to KD joining the Warriors then I dont know what is.
I don't have any issues with the players moving at any point in their careers, I wish it weren't like that but that's the reality of THIS era.
The current KD move (age 35) is absolutely similar to GP and Malone, 100% agreement. My comments were directed at the age 26 prime Lebron move.
P.S. Malone got hurt during the playoffs that one year with the Lakers and they fell short as he hobbled it out. I think had that not happened, the Lakers had a good chance at winning it all and he would have a ring.
Jordan was gambling/golfing in his 30's and refusing to sign autographs/taking pics, LeBron did a lot for charity while still being in the gym every day.
Definitely have to separate Jordan's public vs. private personas.
No idea about the charity stuff, I know Lebron has done a lot for Cleveland.
As far as developing the league, Jordan is not going to lose that comparison but anyone that has been around following the league knows his private persona is basically a bit in the other direction shall we say.
Agree with you on the Cleveland owner. Having watched guys like Mike Trout and Barry Sanders waste their careers on dead end teams makes me fully sympathetic to any athlete who decides that he/she doesnt want to go that route. That's why I was glad when Ohtani left the Angels, too bad Trout is stuck there.
You say my examples were awful. While I will admit that Karl Malone and Gary Payton were not young and at their peaks, they were still highly productive when they joined the Lakers. Both of them were averaging around 20 ppg in the season before going to join the 3 time champion that happened to have two of the most dominant players in the league on their squad. If that isnt a close comparison to KD joining the Warriors then I dont know what is.
Malone was 40 and Payton 35. Sure you have 2 guys who can score. But cannot no longer play defense. You cannot compare that to the 4 all star level players in their prime on the Warriors.
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