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I have pointed out several times that Saul/Paul suffered from Seizure disorders. His "Vision" on the road to Damascus is a textbook case of focal seizures. All the symptoms add up. What does not add up is some mystical vision from some dead person, because we all know that sane people do not have these kinds of visions. Look it up. Saul/Paul had a vision that is a textbook case of the hallucination that accompany a focal seizure.
Now Christians reject this theory, wanting to insist that Jesus called on Saul from the dead. Christians want to accept Saul/Paul's interpretation of Jeee-Zus...not only did Paul reject what the people who lived with Jesus, such as Peter said about him, and not only was Peter rejected by the original disciples, but Christians today have accepted the mythology of Paul when all of Paul's "knowledge" of Jesus was the result of a hallucination caused by a neurological disorder.
Again, look up neurology, focal seizure disorder.
Now if believing in, and accepting advises from, mythological beings and mentally ill people inspires someone, well, good luck with that. Maybe he will show up this evening before the game kicks off
That being said, in psychology, people who have no treatment for seizure disorders often suffer from what we refer to as "Axis " disorders. This means that people who have seizures may suffer from depression, anxiety, personality disorders as a result of the inability to cope or understand, and Paul's writings indicate and reflect this as well. In Paul's time, seizure disorders were not understood, nor were any neuro-psychiatric disorders. Medicine had not yet evolved. Seizures were sometimes seen as demonic, or in Paul's case, Divine, and even dreams were even as omens and messages from the spirit world. Roman medicine, while advanced from the previous 2000 years by comparison, knew little compared to what we know today. Dreams , we know, are firings of our subconscious, created by our minds, not by dead or disembodied spirits. Paul though, would not have understood that. Nor would he understand that his seizures, where he saw bright lights and heard voices, are the symptom of a neurological disease Nor was any treatment available, supposing that it had been understood.
What I find amazing is that people still in the 21st century pick up a Bible and say "Here Here let's base our lives and philosopy on this ancient garbage..." that is proof that humanity has much further yet to evolve.
Sorry, KingCat, if you ever had a certification as a Clinical Psychologist or Psychiatric Diagnostician, your unethical application of it to ancient Paul would go a long way toward revoking it!
I must admit that most of my time these days is about reading about the differences within Christianity.
That alone could deconvert a lot of people.
There are definitely contradictions within the bible, like the one about "judging others" that Evangelicals will use, and dismiss the original statement as "out of context".
The biblical explanation that a deconverted or fallen away Christian "was never a Christian to begin with" is also blatantly false, as we can see with Rachael Slick.
The use of biblical quotes that are in 1st, 2nd and 3rd person, and then that they can all be used interchangeably at that level, is perplexing as well.
Sorry, KingCat, if you ever had a certification as a Clinical Psychologist or Psychiatric Diagnostician, your unethical application of it to ancient Paul would go a long way toward revoking it!
What is really sad is that over the years, I have received referrals for elderly clients who were former members of evangelical/Fundy sects. All were so destitute that it was pathetic. All had to live with someone else, as they owned no property or money. One even confided in me that he never expected to get to "this point in life"...he was expecting Jesus to return "decades ago" Now these former ministers live in anything from converted vans parked in back of churches to bare bones rooms in parishioner's houses and have no pension, no insurance outside of Medicaid (when they can get it) and no benefits, as they did not pay into a social security system. They suffer from all the effects of extreme poverty, depression, a myriad of age related health problems, and very little hope. They rely on others for groceries, copays for meds, rides to the clinic, even the clothes they wear (which came from Salvation Army most of the time) It is sad , because they did not plan for the future because they themselves thought that there would be no future.
It is sad. It's a terrible life for some who spent their entire lives in a cult/sect that deprived them of experiencing anything 'worldly' outside of the cult. If they dare, then they are ostracized. There may be many reasons why they were no longer part of 'the fold'. It's a tough row to hoe when you get older anyway, it's heartbreaking to know that this is happening to so many.
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Thankfully, there are good Atheist's like myself around to help them out. Since I pretty much know that Jesus is not coming back (because Jesus is not real) I chose not to be limited by other's beliefs (like family members) and instead, follow a path of education and learning which includes mythology AS mythology and creativity as Man's highest achievement, even if that includes, sadly, man's creation of god(s).
Oh, are there good atheists? Imagine that. Atheists doing good things. No god needed. I understand that a lot of people need that promise of a better afterlife, and being so special, that they get whisked away in the sky by god. Kind of like winning the afterlife lottery, first class ticket to Paradise, no waiting. Oh, and these lucky ones all get to witness the horrors that are happening on earth because the Rapture happened. For seven whole years! Sick and twisted stuff.
I have a feeling someone is going to bring up some kind of something along the lines of what they think is original thoughts. Maybe their lame version of Pascal's Wager.
And obviously, later further cementing this was the internet and all the hours and hours of reading everything I could click on Wikipedia back in the 2000's, and learning of all the other faiths just as sincerely believed across the world, not just the one in the community I happen to be from. And just learning everything else about everything.
Atheism freed me from the chains of society, and things that people say, and tell you. I answer only to myself. I know what I've done, and what I'm proud of and what I'm not proud of. I'm accountable for that. I alone.
I don't dislike people's belief in God, but I dislike anyone who takes the Bible seriously. I find that concept offensive in itself. It is just a damn collection of random words. Figure out your own meaning to life.
I agree. All that I have learned about other religions has been after becoming an atheist. Seems strange to some I suppose, since I'm no longer a Christian, to be so interested in different religions. I don't care, all I ever knew was Fundamentalism. I knew nothing about anything really. I want to know things.
I loathe things that Fundamentalists say, like "You'll have to answer to god for that" or "I'll pray for you". Words, all of it is just words. No actions needed, cause praying will get it done. Instead of worshipping a god, Christianity worships an ancient text that is, in fact, an idol itself. That's their total argument. Because the bible says so. Does it?
There was no specific Biblical story/tenet/doctrine that broke the camel's back. It was the final conclusion that the Bible and Christians who push it on you are poor instructors. If a god cannot understand my point-of-view, it would do well for this god to change friends. The grass is really greener with people who understand the learning process. And, naturally, if I question the Bible or its followers, it puts me closer to atheism. So that is where I am at.
Sorry, KingCat, if you ever had a certification as a Clinical Psychologist or Psychiatric Diagnostician, your unethical application of it to ancient Paul would go a long way toward revoking it!
Nothing Unethical about pointing out reality. What, Mystic, Did I strike a nerve by pointing out that Paul as not, in reality, the great leader he is assumed, but rather, more likely, a charlatan and victim?
IF Paul were here today, we could refer him over to the psychiatry division. They would get him some SRIs to help with his mood disorder, while Neurology would offer and use a myriad of treatments to control his seizures. His hallucinations of a talking dead Jesus would stop as a result.
He could be given therapy for his anger issues and his self aggrandizing behavior could be lessened, making him a functioning member of society, which would give him something he never had...self esteem.
What ,my friend, is so unethical about helping someone who needs it? We do less for homeless people in our community. We do less for strangers. We do less for the poor and destitute What is so wrong with pointing out the reality that Paul was not some mystical or supernatural seer of a dead person, but instead, more likely and obviously, a person with a neuro-psychiatric disease?
AND I say again, it is not so much the Bible, which many of us have read and see as fiction (and not really that good, either) but Christians themselves who serve as examples of who and what NOT to be in this day an age
I have pointed out several times that Saul/Paul suffered from Seizure disorders.
There isn't enough evidence to forensically analyze it.
It also ignores the fact that James -- the brother of Jesus, not the disciple -- died on his way to India. James wouldn't go to India by himself "just because" but he would go by himself if already knew people there. The road to Damascus is the road to India. In spite of the Empire's best efforts to have legions patrol the roads, there was a lot of banditry off-road so people stuck to the roads lest they became victims and besides, all the hostels and inns are along the road.
There is a Jewish community in Kashmir. It was always believed they came from Kazakhstan. That is not unreasonable since damn near everybody came from there. In my ancestry, one brother went to Armenia and the other to India but they didn't go alone. They went in groups. The latter differentiated into J-M144 but several 1,000 years later, the descendants of the other brother (J-M172) migrated to India.
I wrote a letter to Bhavesh Bhagwanji Shah. He's a nice guy. We text about once or twice a year. We share a common ancestor within the last 3,000 years. He lives just north of Mumbai on the same ancestral lands his family has been living on since the 6th Century BCE and neither his ancestor nor his family came alone.
DNA testing proves the Jews in Kashmir came from Jerusalem and not Kazakhstan and their arrival was recent in historical terms, about 2,000 years ago. It wasn't one man that went there and set up shop. It was a group. If you want to find the descendants of Jesus, that's where you'd look and that's why James was going there.
I would say that Paul's "hallucinations" could be better explained by neurological disease than as visions from some dead person who probably was nothing like what people today believe.
SO forensically, looking at patients who have the same condition today, we do see a likely explanation.
Looking at patients today who have similar psychological issues, as apparent in Paul's writings as well as stories of others disliking or fearing him, including those especially who supposedly knew Jesus while Paul did not but claimed..indicated a higher likelihood that Paul was not a reputable source at the time nor should be now.
That would be like me going around saying that I am having visions from Rev Moon (whom I never met) and all the teachings of the Unification church need to be changed because Rev Moon is telling me exactly what he wants me to tell..... Yeah, a psych consult would then be in order. In Paul's days, they did not have psych consults. They had superstitions. SO IF someone said "I am getting teachings in dreams/visions from a dead person I never met, " people would believe it. That was superstition then.
We do not need it now, unless we are watching bigfoot documentary for entertainment value
This idea seems to be shared among several of the posters on this thread. I have read numerous comments on the forum which would point to many members sharing at least some degree of this idea.
I also believe that we as humans, being "tribal" or evolved "pack" animals of sorts, band together to this day to find some degree of safety and shelter.
100,000 years ago, it was banding together in a cave shelter to protect each other from wild animals
Today, many band together in religions to protect themselves from people who do not share the same worldview. An "Us vs them" mentality
Many of us who are non-believers have found that when we do desire the company of our fellow humans, we can do it in a healthier atmosphere than a religious gathering. When we look at the bad aspects of Christianity, let us not forget that for one, over half of the Bible is about this aforementioned evil character they call "god" and two, according to their own teachings, Jesus AND this character they call "god" are one and the same.
And then, we wonder, why are religious people so hateful towards the world and their fellow humans? Well, read the Bible (as I have) and find out!!!
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