TXDOT's Proposed New Lubbock Outer Loop Project (Howe, Shallowater: 2014, to buy)

[case44]

Originally Posted by orbius

Once again, TxDOT chief says: No money for new construction by 2012 | DALLAS TRANSPORTATION Blog | dallasnews.com

Its been made quite clear the Txdot chairman specifically said "Once again, TxDOT chief says: No money for new construction by 2012". Doesnt get much clearer than that. So whatever Txdot is proposing here will be toll 100%.

The only way new roads are getting built anywhere in the state is because localities are diverting money earmarked for road maintenance for new roads or issuing bonds to build basic infrastructure.

If the status quo is maintained there will be no money for basic infrastructure building from here to eternity.

Point taken, and that's fine. I didn't say when the project would get started because there is no timetable for it. It won't be before 2012 and it will take years before a design is even set.

[MikeyAusmus]

Originally Posted by case44

Hi, folks. Not too long ago, the folks at TXDOT have gotten together to plan for the state's and Lubbock's future, and they are proposing a new outer loop around Lubbock in the years to come. Right now, they are seeking input from residents and business leaders in the area. There is no timetable on the road, with lots of scenarios being presented at this time, but nothing is final. What's necessitating this is the growth in the city's west and south sides. At present, a possible Phase One includes part of the outer loop (or, as I prefer to call it, a beltway, but that's not important now) being planned to go from U.S. 84 in the southeast near Posey around the south and west sides to end up at Shallowater on U.S. 84 in the northwest. That's what we know now.

Those of you who live out there have probably seen many houses being built south of FM 1585. Right of way will definitely be needed in that area before any more new development takes place if this outer loop is to happen. All you West Texans out there, we'd like to hear your thoughts on this proposal. Let's toss this ball around a little bit on this.

Here's one link for you: New study shows outer route or "loop" is needed - KCBD, NewsChannel 11 Lubbock |

I think it is very crutial for Lubbock to consider a second loop. Lubbock is a growing metropolitan area that should learn from the mistakes of poor planning such as Houston for example! Houston waiting too late to do anything about their 2nd loop and when the need came about they had to scramble to find ROW and the entire loop became Texas' longest tollway.

Lubbock is smart being able to foresee the need and acting NOW when ROW cost is low. The citizens of Lubbock will definitely appreciate it in the future because getting the ROW is half the battle and the outer loop stands a chance of remaining a freeway, not a tollway.

Personally I think the outer loop should be place futher south than FM-1585 and further west than FM-179. It may seem ridiculous to think that, but when construction actually starts lets say in 20 years the city would have already grown well past those points!

[Wesnles]

A half loop for now would do the job. From 87 west on 41 to the west side of wolforth to shallowwater. 179 wOuld be tough since it goes through wolforth and right in front of frenship high.

[Texas Liberal]

When I first saw this, only thought was why on Earth does Lubbock need another highway? It already has more highways than any city twice its size. And there are certainly places in Texas that are far more congested and actually need some new highways.

After I thought about it though, I think I understand what is going on. Here goes.

Lubbock typically grows at about %1 (sometimes a little faster, some times a little slower, but always near that rate) per year. That is considered the ideal growth rate by city planners since it is fast enough to support growth industries like construction, but slow enough that you can plan well in advance. I think that is why Lubbock has such a good highway system when so many other cities in Texas do not. Some places in Texas are growing so fast that the state just can't keep up, and some places go through boom and bust cycles that make planning more difficult, but Lubbock is (relatively) slow and steady.

[Newbe10]

I wonder how TX-DOT and the state of Texas in general could be so broke that they can't build new FREE freeways in Texas; especially when states like Arizona and California are MUCH worse off financially than Texas and they still manage to somehow build new freeways with no tolls (i.e. Loop 202 and 303 in the Phoenix Metro; California State Highway 210 east extension, and California State Highway 4 freeway from Concord to Stockton; as well as some others).

[MikeyAusmus]

Originally Posted by Newbe10

I wonder how TX-DOT and the state of Texas in general could be so broke that they can't build new FREE freeways in Texas; especially when states like Arizona and California are MUCH worse off financially than Texas and they still manage to somehow build new freeways with no tolls (i.e. Loop 202 and 303 in the Phoenix Metro; California State Highway 210 east extension, and California State Highway 4 freeway from Concord to Stockton; as well as some others).

Texas maintains WAY more highways than Arizona and California! TxDOT is responsible for over 80,000 miles of highways in an area that has roughly the same area as California and Arizona combined, but with less population. Texas' population is more spread out compared to California or Arizona, but growing intensely! TxDOT literally cannot keep up with the intense growth and the money available through taxes are not enough to keep making new freeways. It isn't like every single highway built in Texas is a tollway. For example, the new US-90 (Crosby Freeway) in Houston, US-62/82 (Marsha Sharp Freeway) in Lubbock, the new IH-69 in south Texas, SS-601 (Liberty Expressway) in El Paso are all toll-free. Tollways are popular in the major metro areas because those are the areas that are facing the biggest growth and not enough tax dollars through gasoline taxes, etc. to pay for new highways.

Houston and DFW for example have been hit the hardest with metro growth exceeding 25% decade over decade over decade! Something has to give, but Texas is reluctant to raise the gasoline tax, but in the meantime, people need to get from point A to point B so tollways are the alternative.

Although tollways aren't exactly appealing to drivers, it is a good sign that people want to live and work in Texas. Also, look at California, they are in a big highway crunch right now particularly in southern California with the new CA-125, CA-73, CA-133, CA-241 and CA-261 tollways. Also the toll lanes on CA-91. In fact, Houston got the idea of toll lanes from CA-91. Arizona is lucky in a sense that the majority of the entire states population is concentrated in 1 large metro area. Makes planning very easy particularly when no other part of the state needs new constructed roadways.

[nategdh]

I hope the next "loop" isn't a tollway. We won't use it if it wasn't free. Whatever the plans are im sure will be great. Lubbock has a 25 minute rush hour at 5pm and other than that it's a breeze getting around. It amazes me how well the grid layout of the streets, the loop, and Marsha Sharp freeway have been able to handle it easily. It's a really nice planned out city. They are also finishing up the Marsha Sharp freeway / I 27 interchange and already have the go ahead on a Marsha Sharp / Millwakee interchange.

[augiedogie]

IMHO, totally unnecessary.

1. The present loop is in no way crowded. I bet there isn't another town in the entire USA that is less crowded than Lubbock. Traffic jams are very rare. A waste of money.

2.Lubbock growth will stagnate before too long. In the first place, many people have moved from the rural areas into Lubbock. There is a limit to this. We don't get many from outside Texas moving here. There's lots better places to move in Texas or Oklahoma than Lubbock.

3.Even if Tech hits 40,000 students in this decade, expansion will not go beyond that.

4. The amount of available water in this area is limited. The only way Lubbock has enough water now is because they acquired the T. Boone Pickens water rights. That's enough to last 100 years. Lack of water will limit potential growth in the long run. The 289 loop is plenty for Lubbock's needs.

[nategdh]

I don't see Lubbocks growth stopping anytime soon. I think it will always continue to grow 3000- 4000 ppl a year. I agree, we don't need another loop now but it's always best to plan for the future. Lubbocks traffic isn't a problem because the have always planned ahead just like they are about this project.

[elan]

I think it's smart to get started on the loop now rather than later. Off topic a little, but getting from Tech Terrace to the Sharp Freeway used to drive me nuts. The grid layout is nice in most areas of town, but there are a few barriers around.