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I've got DC at ~1.7 square miles downtown. I think... Attachment 246402
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdivola
I got 2.7 sq miles using the south of mass and NY ave from Union Market to Foggy Bottom up to Florida Ave. The distance was roughly 8.5 miles, so maybe that is where MD was getting his numbers.
Just looking at the DC zoning map, you can see the vast majority of the city is zoned for rowhouses and SFHs.
This study seems to really drive my point home about Downtown DC being significantly larger in land area than Downtown Boston, Chicago, Philly, and San Fran. In an apples to apples comparison for tons of cities, DC came out substantially larger than the rest of America based on the criteria used. Note I didn't subtract the 2 sq. mile Federal zone, but if you do, Core Downtown DC is 4.3 sq. miles and still double the size of the other cities.
Mostly tearing old unused buildings down like the Edison Power Plant and Warehouses along Dot Ave though. Boston can also build over much of I-90 as it is currently doing...Eventually, it will tear down the old Class C office Space Downtown that is declining in value. And there are still plots in the Seaport.
There is also a ton of Room all around Melnea Cass Boulevard to build up. Expect that in the next 20 years as RE values appreciate in Roxbury and the South End. Lab space and residential is already planned for the area and it will serve to connect areas like Boston Medical Center (and by extension the South End Exchange) to Wentworth Institute, BFITs new campus, and Northeastern. Extending the Core of the city almost down to Malcolm X Boulevard imo.
I can see it happening as there are lots begging to be developed. Especially because Boston is rebuilding the Long Island Bridge so that Long Island can house recovery facilities again. In addition to this Lemuel Shattuck is getting a new campus for the homeless and addicted. These efforts combined will remove the open-air drug market along Mass Ave and Melnea Cass Boulevard.
You make a great point here that most people forget. The assumption was that office-to-residential conversions would need to be converted versus torn down. With office buildings falling in value, they're now candidates for teardowns which removes the barrier for light and air required in a residential building. Office owners are handing back the keys to their lenders left and right in DC.
So we can subtract 2 sq. miles from the land mass for DC to get the real population density. That is the Federal District where nobody lives including the National Mall, White House, etc. etc.
The proposed state map carves out a 2-mile radius to be called the National Capital Service Area, which includes federal buildings, such as the White House, Capitol, Supreme Court and the National Mall. This becomes the seat of the federal government as defined in the Constitution.
No you don’t. Because while nobody lives in the Smithsonian it’s still a things that’s in DC and I’m sure you’d brag about Downtown DC’s unmatched cultural amenities. If it counts in that context it counts in this context
Similarly you can say nobody lives in the Federal buildings but also the city wouldn’t exist without the Federal government so space taken up by the reason the city exists absolutely counts.
DC has lower employment density as well. So those places nobody lives I guess nobody works either?
No you don’t. Because while nobody lives in the Smithsonian it’s still a things that’s in DC and I’m sure you’d brag about Downtown DC’s unmatched cultural amenities. If it counts in that context it counts in this context
Similarly you can say nobody lives in the Federal buildings but also the city wouldn’t exist without the Federal government so space taken up by the reason the city exists absolutely counts.
DC has lower employment density as well. So those places nobody lives I guess nobody works either?
That's actually not why I mentioned that. You tried to point out the difference in population density. I made reference to that because the blocks that people actually live on have very high population density. I already pointed that out when I said this below. Boston didn't reach these densities anywhere in the whole city.
Which city between Boston, DC, Philly, and Seattle has the densest city neighborhood by block groups using the census reporter website?
The densest neighborhood by block group in DC is downtown in Mt. Vernon Triangle with 4 block groups over 100,000 people per square mile:
Downtown DC (Mt. Vernon Triangle) Census Block Groups
1. 176,017.1 people per square mile
2. 154,917.7 people per square mile
3. 152,215.9 people per square mile
4. 129,069.2 people per square mile
On a side note, this block group below with join these other 4 above in a few years. There are 600 units under construction on this block right now.
Not sure how accurate that data is.
Downtown Houston (the area within the highway loops) for example is made up of 3 zip codes. 77002, 77010 and the western portion of 77003
Downtown+ parts of East Downtown:
77002, 77010, 77003 = 29,686
Rest of East Downtown:
77011, 77026, = 44,736
Midtown + Montrose:
77006= 22,678
Allen Parkway to River Oaks
77019 = 22,475
So for the greater downtown area, which excludes, Museum District, Rice U, The Medical Center, Upper Kirby I get 119,575 for the greater downtown Houston area. I would say there is some fluff in there, but I would also say that the Museum District, Binz, Upper Kirby and TMC should be included in the greater downtown area so cutting the fat and adding the left out areas I think ~ 100k for the greater downtown Houston area is conservative.
Edit: I just saw someone mention the article is old
Which article is old? The CC report states that it’s using 2022-2023 data as an update to a report from 10 years ago.
No you don’t. Because while nobody lives in the Smithsonian it’s still a things that’s in DC
Gotta agreee... once we start removing things it gets dicey. What if we remove the Boston Garden and Common and the Airport? ( Airport alone is 3.725 sqmi)..
Gotta agreee... once we start removing things it gets dicey. What if we remove the Boston Garden and Common and the Airport? ( Airport alone is 3.725 sqmi)..
Not to mention the Common is an Amenity people use! The city would be far worse if that was built like DTX even if it means an extra 32,000 people
Would Downtown Chicago be better if you built apartments on Grant Park and renovated the Art Institute into Apartments? Likely not. In Fact Grant Park is probably a reason people like the Loop so much
Which article is old? The CC report states that it’s using 2022-2023 data as an update to a report from 10 years ago.
Gotcha
The figures don't match up with census reporter data then.
And some of those areas considered downtown vary wildly
For Houston they just took the CBD, while for other areas they roped in surrounding districts.
What's odd too is that economic activity extends far past the CBD in downtown Houston and yet the greater downtown area is kept small. Other cities though like Dallas, Austin, Indianapolis got outside areas that are just single family homes considered greater downtown, but areas in Houston with hirise office towers are excluded.
Fort Worth gets 9000 acres for its catchment area, Indianapolis gets 12,000 acres, both of which are largely SFH with no businesses, while entire business districts adjacent to downtown Houston gets cut off??
I would think the greater downtown area would cut off where the area falls to just SFH with no businesses, no restaurants, no retail, just homes with yards
The figures don't match up with census reporter data then.
And some of those areas considered downtown vary wildly
For Houston they just took the CBD, while for other areas they roped in surrounding districts.
What's odd too is that economic activity extends far past the CBD in downtown Houston and yet the greater downtown area is kept small. Other cities though like Dallas, Austin, Indianapolis got outside areas that are just single family homes considered greater downtown, but areas in Houston with hirise office towers are excluded.
Fort Worth gets 9000 acres for its catchment area, Indianapolis gets 12,000 acres, both of which are largely SFH with no businesses, while entire business districts adjacent to downtown Houston gets cut off??
I would think the greater downtown area would cut off where the area falls to just SFH with no businesses, no restaurants, no retail, just homes with yards
That's not true. Old East Dallas isn't purely single family homes. It's apartments, duplexes, townhomes, too.
The core downtown makes sense to me. The bulk of the office buildings start a little north of I-30 and bleeds into Uptown Dallas. East of Downtown is Deep Ellum and Lower Greenville, which a portion of it is also included in Greater Downtown.
I am guessing, those are big job generators and contribute to the urban nature...perhaps more cohesive?.
Help me understand how large scale areas, mere yards away from downtown Dallas is left at such low use. Houston is bad in tearing down vacant buildings to build parking lots, but those are at least lucrative.
How are all those lots near Dallas just empty?
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